Labour candidates in East Dulwich

[????]

And what's the Labour party line on bullying in schools......:-S

[Huguenot]

??

What should any party line be on school bullies... 'we don't like it and we'd like it to stop'?

You can't expect a local council to renovate our cultural history.

Steveo's approach to communication is pretty weird. How many people do you think you'd reach in a library, and how much info do you think you'd deliver with ten words on a poster?

T'interweb is a runaway achievement in terms of 'cost of reach' (a technical term for how many people you reach per pound). There is a significant irony in that Steveo's on a website communicating his opinion ;-)

I'd be inclined to dump any other communication in favour of the web. The only thing that infuriates me about council and political papers is how patronising they are.

[Huguenot]

BTW, did anyone else notice Oliver ducking out there when he was exposed for being a draft-dodger?

University of real-life mate, go on, have a go ;-)

[steveo]

As Mr Lush Head pointed out to me, in addition to the local press, bus shelters, library, posters and noticeboards, the council could use this very website and others in the area to communicate. Mr Barber and the Labour chappies are already spreading their word on it.

I'm not suggesting closing the website, I simply want to know how much it costs. I maintain a couple of sites, it takes a lot of time and the Southwark site is immense.

I am suggesting closing that magazine.

[Joani]

This conversation is very useful and also important, so thank you for your contributions. A council can have the best polices and initiatives in the land, but unless the correct and most effective method of communicating polices and services to the people who access them, the council's efforts will be in vain. It is also essential to have real dialogue to improve upon its services rather than circulating a magazine which very few read (not directed at Southwark Life).

I will look into the cost of the Southwark Life and the website to ascertain whether there are any other ways Southwark Council could use to advertise their services and communicate as effectively as possible to as many people as possible.

Thanks again,

Joani

[????]

Oh thank you for deeming our conversations as useful and important, I shall tug my forelock any minute. A council/governemnt can also have the most self-serving and useless policies in the land and dress them up as all sorts of things via various communication channels.

[Administrator]

Please keep this thread and discussion about East Dulwich and things that directly affect East Dulwich. I would like it to remain useful and about ED issues, not just a place for people to have a rant about political parties.

[Smiler]

At present, the admissions criteria for primary schools in Southwark seem to mean that if your closest school is one that you would not choose (e.g. in special measures) there is virtually no chance of getting your child into another local school, except on the basis of faith (a whole other argument). Would this change if a labour council was elected?

Further, central government has made it difficult for councils to set up new community (non Academy / faith schools), which is not helping the situation in East Dulwich. Could you comment on this?

Agree with others that free school meals for all in Southwark would be a waste of money. Having free school meals may indeed be a stigma at present - but kids will always find reasons to be mean to each other, and spending money making everyone the same when it comes to meals is not going to solve that issue. And thankfully it is not up to the government to determine what goes in kids' lunchboxes!

> Education locally, and school places in

> particular. As I'm sure you know, there are many

> families with young children in East Dulwich and

> it's created a big squeeze on school places; I

> don't think the council has adequately prepared

> for the changing demographics in the area. The

> government however has promised an extra ?12

> million for new school classrooms in Southwark.

> Where exactly in the borough this is spent is up

> to the council, and making sure that the Dulwich

> area gets its fair share is a priority of ours.

>

> In addition, we are pledging free school meals for

> all Primary School children if Labour takes

> control of the council. I think this is a really

> positive step and will benefit children and

> families across Southwark.

>

[ruffers]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As Mr Lush Head pointed out to me, in addition to

> the local press, bus shelters, library, posters

> and noticeboards, the council could use this very

> website and others in the area to communicate. Mr

> Barber and the Labour chappies are already

> spreading their word on it.

>

> I'm not suggesting closing the website, I simply

> want to know how much it costs. I maintain a

> couple of sites, it takes a lot of time and the

> Southwark site is immense.

>

> I am suggesting closing that magazine.

All the above will each address a small part of the populace, I'm still waiting for an alternative suggestion which you can be confident would reach virtually every household?

Most people don't use libraries.

Most people don't visit a website.

Most people don't read local press.

Everyone living in the area has a letterbox.

(Sorry if a bit off topic)

[sophiesofa]

As someone who has no clue who to vote for this free school meals for all primary school kids thing has put me off labour - it's just such a waste of money and just seems to have been pulled out of the air because there are so many families in ED you think it must be a vote winner? I know no-one is ever going to agree with every policy but this one really peeves me off.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Can you explain why it's such a waste of money? I'm curious

[Domitianus]

Because it's not the state (i.e. the taxpayers') job to feed other people's kids, perhaps?

[sophiesofa]

I have no problem with my taxes going towards meals for children whose parents genuinely can't afford them - the waste is the people who happily pay anyway or provide a healthy packed lunch.

[????]

do you think many families in ED need their school meals paid for Sean especially when serious cuts are on the way? Looks like am attempt to buy votes....

[SeanMacGabhann]

You can see that there is an argument that if poor children are helped at an early age, money might be saved later on (be it health or criminal related)?

I knew plenty of people who benefitted from school meals growing up and I think it's a bit crass for "taxpayers" to be quite so "I'm alright Jack" about things

[????]

er.....it's means tested now. Labour are going to make it universal

[SeanMacGabhann]

is it ED specific? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of poor parents in ED in any case

Is it an attempt to buy votes? Possibly, but I don't see what harm can come of it and I can see plenty of good. So parents who can afford it will get some freebies - big deal - it's often costlier to sort the needy out than to just stump up anyway. Where is the sticking point?

As for cuts being on the way - I wouldn't be cutting just yet and anyway, school meals were free when I grew up in a country that was financially LEAGUES worse than the UK is now

[steveo]

This issue has some fake letters, a feature on first time voters, one on celebrating Southwark women, an events calendar, an interview with a GP, a feature on Southwark Muslims, another on spring cleaning and two page ads saying how great Southwark is. The rest of it might scrape by as useful.

Do you think that's worth between ?25,000 and ?50,000 a month (depending who you believe)?

The council may be obliged to publicise its services (although I've seen no evidence of this yet) but it doesn't have an obligation to run a magazine full of waffle.

However, in the spirit of compromise perhaps it should consider occasional leaflet drops.

[????]

It was an example of an area which many families don't need it. The facts on this are actually posted somewhere further up on this thread so rather than thinking we're all snooty not caring tories why don't you read back a bit and see that in fact a significant 5 of kids in southwark really don't need their meals paid for, those that do can get it (although some a few 1000 are reckoned not too becuase of failure to claim or stigma)and given cuts that will be coming won't it be better not to use council money in looks like a poor attempt to get family votes. If you'd read through this earlier rather than jumping to conclusions as you think that all on this threa are on a anti politicains rant, you'd have maybe come up with a better defence.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Quids - I have read the thread and specifically gigirl's questions around costings for providing extra meals as well as Oliver's answer

I don't recall calling anyone Tory, although I did use the "I'm alright Jack phrase" - other than that I don't think I have posted anything particularly strong.

I can't find the "fact" which states how many people do or don't need meals - I read some speculation but no more than that

Leaving aside electioneering and vote grabbing, and prospective cuts - how is it controversial to want a school to provide meals for all it's pupils? If I become a parent and I can provide meals for my children I would still prefer a system where all children at the same school were fed from the same place (as long as it was decent) - will that cost me more? Possibly but not by that much I would have thought

As for other people onhere claiming d?j? vu with labour - There are good reasons to not vote Labour (and I intend to use them) but if the country is broke and cuts are coming I can't see what any other government would have done to prevent the current problems - which aren't isolated to this country by a long chalk

[????]

Sean - Firstly not an argument just clarification, schools do provide meals for all pupils and they are paid for by the parents, those that are on benefits and i'm guessing some lower income families don't have to pay - this is a seperate non-visible arrangement, when I was young you gave in 'dinner money' so those who got assisstance stood out!. However, people can opt out and provide a packed lunch too and many do. So it is there for all but not universally free and choice about what your kids eat seems a reasobnable option in the 21st century, my little girl tends to alternate. Packed lunches were also an option even when I was at school (although the food was dire then and it is not at all now at my girls school).

As it happens I tend to philisophically support universal benefits but the current fiscal situation is dire on all levels, and we will need to have big cuts and some small ones too (yes I know it's global, ask greeks...and the irish too!) to be blunt I'm quite happy paying for my kids meals when fire escapes in Southwark tower blocks still remain unsafe. It DOES look like an attempt to buy votes in all honesty - yes I know I grind axes - but I suspect it won't work as I reckon many Southwark parents will kind of feel like I do. We will see.

[david_carnell]

I would have thought that economies of scale would mean that the extra children could be fed at a comparatively low extra cost.

Once you factor in the cost of administering a means-tested school meal system I would imagine it becomes almost cost neutral.

It's like objecting to free museum entry because some people can already afford to go.... the fact that a local policy commitment is to feed all children a healthy, nutritious and balanced diet would seem to be entirely sensible.

[????]

The numbers are here somewhere David. I think you probably overestimate the scale of false claims and the depth of scrutiny of the Free Meals claims area of the Education Budget...this isn't Disabilty Benefit. Again it's nice old socialism...gotta be paid for somehwere but all meals for everyone that's fair, we'll have that, we have to have some restraint and there's not even a demand for this it just looks like a poor attempt to grab family votes in my opinion. Where are we going to start some cuts? Cos they're coming and this looks like an unneccessary increase in expenditure however small and cosmetic it is. And for what? Principle? IMO Votes

I'll threaten you with the Thatcher quote again "The problem with socialism etc"

[????]

PS RE Economies of scale. I think you misunderstand, parents who can afford to already pay, the meals exist universally and at something like 90p a day (I think, I'll check later). This isn't a cut in 'benefit' its a propsal to offer it the subsidy (not the meal) universally, I don't think you'll get a massive upswing in volume if they become free . Someone did the maths earlier but you are taking money away from southwark schools generated at source revenue to be replaced by Southwark taxpayers money. Money out of revenue and into spend...hey but it's only a few million.

[david_carnell]

Politician makes policy to win votes shocker!

Come on Quidsy - are you expecting me to believe that you're arguing against any degree of populism in politics? Whilst I'd like to see an ideological backbone to policy making I don't object to some measures that are vote winners too. This is the 21st century.

This is fundamentally a policy which will help poorer families, by removing the stigma and social barriers which continue to be attached to recipients of free school meals and by offering a healthy and nutritious meal to those 1,800 pupils who are already entitled to free school meals but do not take advantage of that entitlement. A recent study by Leeds University showed that only one per cent of packed lunches taken to school contained the nutritional content that a child needs - surely the idea of the local council providing that is not so abhorrent?