incident on east dulwich road (abuse from kids)

[rgutsell]

Hi all

I wanted to make all aware of an incident that I became involved in this evening with a group of youths.

I was driving on my usual route home at around 1750pm this evening along East Dulwich Road, when a young man stepped out in front of me and appeared to be commanding me to stop. (Which I was forced to do, with all the rush hour traffic behind as well) Then a group of around 8-10( I guess), all of school age, stepped out on the road, and it was clear that they were dominating the road and crossing wherever they wanted, however they wanted. I wound the window down and said they should use the public crossing, just ahead of them, (for which we all have paid!1) and for that got volleys of abuse. My nearside mirror and rear door were hit. I opened the drivers door to stop them, and made my feelings clear about their behaviour, and so that meant they kicked my drivers door too.

I have informed the Police and it will be passed on to the Safer Neighbourhood Team.

I am not expecting any one to be caught etc, but I do hope that if anyone else sees anything like that in the same area again, they will pass it on to the Police. (and SNT).

Rgutsell

[Narnia]

Sometimes I wish it was fair game to run people over. Nasty thing to happen to you but it's not uncommon to see some people cross the road like they owned it and daring you to look at them almost. I hate it. Scary when they were so many of them though. You sound like it didn't affect you too much. Hope not.

[rgutsell]

Hi Narnia

well it did upset me and made me quite fearful, after I had calmed down. I could have been a lot more aggressive and uncontrolled than I was. Anyway, in retrospect, its not a huge incident, but I do worry that if groups of youths congregate they can become (not always) threatening.

Rgutsell

[first mate]

Rgutshell,

What a nasty experience- was there any way of identifying the kids at all, just in case there are further incidents?

My first reaction is where oh where are those mobile CCTV units when most you need them. Nipping this sort of behaviour in the bud by catching and charging the little b's would be a much better use of resources than endless pursuit of minor parking infringements- better for the kids too in the long term.

[EDmummy]

Yes, nasty experience. Did you consider not confronting them? Do you think they would have still damaged your car if you did not yell at them and opened your drivers door in a confrontational manner? Any police officer would have told you not to confront them for your own safety.

These kids want a reaction and attention. You gave it to them. What have you gained?

[Jeremy]

Yeah... unfortunately you gave them exactly what they wanted.

I think the best options were either to ignore them or run them over.

[The Minkey]

Oh for a cattle prod when you need one ;-)

[Magpie]

I think you did the right thing - anti-social behaviour needs to be confronted, particularly when committed by Children, the Police can't be everywhere.

[jumpinjackflash]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah... unfortunately you gave them exactly what

> they wanted.

>

> I think the best options were either to ignore

> them or run them over.

ha! couldn't agree more!!>:D<

[paramount]

Every morning this happens on Cheltenham Road - not the abuse and car kicking, but the road crossing. Girls for the Harris Academy get off the 343 and 484 bus and simply cross the road, in a long stream, despite there being a zebra crossing about 20 yards away. Frequently there is a police presence at the school in the mornings, but they exhibit no interest in ensuring that the girls cross properly and with consideration for other road users. I understand from my local councillor that this has been raised with the school on many occasions, but clearly they are unable or unwilling to address the problem.

[londonloves]

rgutsell-well done for reporting it-and for confronting them-I have to say that 9 out of ten times when you do-politely bring kids up on their behaviour they respond well-you got the small percentage who behave badly and would benefit even more so from finding outa)their behaviour was rude/dangerous and b) they cannot bully whoever they wish. If people actually spoke to kids behaving in an anti social way then they would realise most of them didn't even realise they were doing anything wrong,and will probably offer a grunted "soz" or stop whatever it is if asked politely. I wound down the window a couple of months back to tell some kids playing football in the road to be careful-I think it's a drivers duty to do this-children don't drive so they have no idea of visability or stopping distances-until they get hit,politely telling them that playing football in the road -next to a bend -in the dark might get them run over was met with grunts-but they did actually pick up the ball and shuffle off.

[SteveT]

Edmummy you speak to rgutsell as if he was the one who was causing trouble, I do not see it that way at all it was his right of way and they were jay walking.

A bunch of bullying thugs who can strut around as if they own the place when team handed.

[Jeremy]

londonloves Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wound down the window a couple of

> months back to tell some kids playing football in

> the road to be careful

There's a big difference between playing football in the street, and being intentionally confrontational.

Some of these kids would think nothing of absolutely kicking the crap out of someone - for fun. Some of the time they're just looking for a reason. There's no point rising to the bait if there's a big group of them.

[puzzled]

it will all be that much worse when the monstrous academy opens its non-academic doors later this year

[EDmummy]

Must be the way you are reading it, SteveT. I absolutely agree anti-social behaviour needs addressing but sometimes it can be dangerous to be the one to take action. I was more concerned that someone could pull a knife on rgutsell. Maybe I am being over cautious.

[PeckhamRose]

EDMummy I think your post was unhelpful and also it did come across like you were blaming him for daring to confront. If they'd have done it to me I would have just video'd them on my phone to - those that's difficult on a motorcycle. I would have probably followed them and phoned the SNT which number is on my mobile.

What a terrible thing to have happened to you.

I shall try to remember to raise this and also the Cheltenham Road situation also mentioned above, at the next Police Ward Panel to which everyone is welcome to attend but hardly ever anyone does!

PM sent to rgutsell

[londonloves]

Jeremy, I see you're point- and yes stopping traffic is different to playing football! However both sets of kids were guilty of being terminally thick (perhaps an inappropriate-if unintentional pun considering the number of young people killed on London?s roads each year)-and it's rgutsells bad luck that they got the thick and violent-rather than the thick and thick kids. I don't think I would be brave enough to get out the car-(just in case they were the 1 in a million types to kick the crap out of me )and if after a polite ticking off they got abusive I'd be outta there. I also completely understand the idea of ignoring and keeping your head down. I also get your point of them just looking for a reason to kick off- but then you never know what that reason may be-politely saying excuse me on a bus can meet with a stream of abuse-not just from kids either! (My other half got a tirade of abuse off a middle aged women on the train the other day-for no reason they could see!) I'm going to continue politely standing up for myself-to kids and adults-whilst still giving people the benefit of the doubt.....walking down Barry road last year some kids sat on a wall started giving me lip for no reason-I politely and jokingly told them to leave it out and as i walked up the road heard the asbo boys girlfriend laughing at me and telling her boyfriend to stop being a "tw*t" and annoying people. I really think rgutsell was very unlucky-the vast majority of young people are more likely to be the victim of violence themselves than horrible little thugs.

[Loz]

the vast majority of young people are more likely to be the victim of violence than horrible little thugs.

Any source for that?

My gut feel is that, yes, young people are more likely than older people to be victims of violence, but the perpetrator is also more likely to be a young person. The high victim numbers should not make us ignore the high perpetrator numbers.

Besides, my experience is that the little buggers think they are untouchable. Sadly, they are often right.

[EDmummy]

Not "unhelpful", Peckham Rose, just a different perspective.

[SteveT]

They frequently come from broken homes where there is no discipline enforced by a male.

[rgutsell]

Hi all

Nice to get the response..it does actually help! EDF as therapeutic venue!!

My own view...and I am glad I kept to it under pressure....is that you have to respond, in an unambigous way that shows clearly how you feel. Thats how they know its a boundary, and that I am an adult. Im glad that I wasn't abusive or physical. (But god knows I'd LOVE to have been able to!!)

Just to make it clear, the guy purposely stepped out in the road, and stood there; he was not just slowly jay walking across; the others then joined, and eventualy made their way across.

[LegalEagle-ish]

I'm just wondering what it was that they were doing in the first place that was so bad you needed to have a go at them. If they were crossing the road where they liked, why would that bother you? Why did you feel the need to tell them to use the crossing? Maybe it was you who was looking for confrontation, or someone to vent on.

It seems to be a rather trivial thing to feel the need to have a go about.

Their actions after you had tried to tell them what to do were obviously wrong, but I wonder if you had any right telling them what to do in the first place.

[Loz]

LegalEagle-ish,

Are you really trying to justify their behaviour?

[LegalEagle-ish]

No, I am trying to find out what motivated the OP to have a go at a load of kids for crossing the road how they wanted.

Or is that the behaviour you are talking about?

I obviously don't condone the attack on the OP's car, but I don't think walking accross the road in a group and not using the crossing is behaviour to condemn.

[Jeremy]

LegalEagle-ish, you're totally wrong.