I heard the news today, oh boy..

[Ant]

An interview with Alan Dale. Our Alan Dale?

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/theatre/drama/story/0,,2259974,00.html

[mockney piers]

I much prefer to think of our alan as

 

[Ant]

An ageing Mr Claypole?

[mockney piers]

Alan-a-Dale!! Sadly Mr Claypole passed away and will never age.

In fact Rentaghost is becoming depressingly like Dad's Army. "He's dead, she's dead"

[mockney piers]

And back to more sombre proceedings.

It's always nice to get a decent journalist out there to look under the covers of the 5 O'Clock follies, and the results are even more surprising than I'd bargained for.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge

[atila the gooner]

I hear that the shopkeeper who was facing prosecution for defending himself against a robber armed with a knife, will not face prosecution after all. The CPS (that noble and well informed institution with it's finger on the pulse) feel he was justified in taking the action to defend himslef and his property. No sh*t sherlock! So the fact that the guy was a career criminal, was armed and intent on stealing and had stabbed the shop keeper was never taken into consideration before this charade by the CPS was undertaken. What awaste of public money, and what kind of message does it send out to people. Crime doesn't pay? Yeah right!!!! How many more times will criminals be made to look like victims and vice versa. And they say we have no faith in the justics/legal system and the police. What a f**king surprise!!!!

[david_carnell]

What are you bloody going on about. The CPS haven't gone ahead with any prosecution. The police advised them not to after looking at the evidence. What more do you want. It's called due process.

It's what marks us out from Saudi Arabia.

Climb down off your high-horse.

[mockney piers]

Hear hear DC.

Separation of the police and the CPS is one of the best things about this country and the ideal of the rule of law.

Think before you print.

*hmm, not very catchy - Rumination before Publication? Make sure it's not mutton, before you hit the button?*

[david_carnell]

Don't give up the day job, eh.

[atila the gooner]

High horse? Wait til I get on one. CPS are shite and always have been, completely toothles one minute and wanting prosecute poor bastards like a shopkeeper trying to defend himself the next. And while we are on the subject why & who decided it should be referred to the marvels at the CPS?????

[david_carnell]

Why are the CPS "shite"? Perhaps because they are poorly paid compared to the private sector and therefore attract only those legal graduates who didn't attain the highest marks? All things considered, I think they do a bang-up job (groan).

Yes, the shopkeeper defended himself. But he killed a man. End of. If that happens it is madatorily (sp?) referred to the CPS for investigation. What if the shop keeper had incapacitated the man and then rather than waiting for the police to arrive stabbed him a few more times to definitely make sure? Or something similar? It goes to the CPS who look at the case alongside a recommendation from the police. The police said they had no reason for them not to believe he did anything wrong; the CPS agreed; the case was dropped. A fast, efficient and open legal system. And your gripe is what exactly? They didn't want to prosecute him or anyone else for that matter - they just look at the evidence and decide if there is a case to answer. Only then do they start legal proceedings.

What's your problem with the CPS? Have you been a naughty boy in the past?

[mockney piers]

You forgot your tags again Atila.

Or was that quoted straight from a spittle-stained Daily Mail journo who hadn't been near a fact, leave alone an interviee in weeks?

[mockney piers]

You might want to read up on the separation of powers.

Police investigate, get a suspect and the evidence. The CPS reviews it and decides whether they will take it to court for a prosecution where it's brought before a judge and, generally, 12 good men and true.

Which bit do you have an issue with? If not the CPS then who? The media perhaps? I really hope you're not suggesting the police should decide.

[david_carnell]

I presume that was directed at Atila and not me?

[atila the gooner]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why are the CPS "shite"? Perhaps because they are

> poorly paid compared to the private sector and

> therefore attract only those legal graduates who

> didn't attain the highest marks? All things

> considered, I think they do a bang-up job

> (groan).

>

> Yes, the shopkeeper defended himself. But he

> killed a man. End of. If that happens it is

> madatorily (sp?) referred to the CPS for

> investigation. What if the shop keeper had

> incapacitated the man and then rather than waiting

> for the police to arrive stabbed him a few more

> times to definitely make sure? Or something

> similar? It goes to the CPS who look at the case

> alongside a recommendation from the police. The

> police said they had no reason for them not to

> believe he did anything wrong; the CPS agreed; the

> case was dropped. A fast, efficient and open legal

> system. And your gripe is what exactly? They

> didn't want to prosecute him or anyone else for

> that matter - they just look at the evidence and

> decide if there is a case to answer. Only then do

> they start legal proceedings.

>

> What's your problem with the CPS? Have you been a

> naughty boy in the past?

The fact that someone is poorly paid doesn't negate responsibility for doing a job properly. As for the CPS being shite, their track record is hardly glowing is it? The shopkeeper was defending his property & potentially his life, so you expect him to hang around and wait for the boys in blue to come and help him out. I've got a mate who is in the force and he has told me to do as much damage to any attacker and ask questions later, because I might end up dead if I wait for help. I guess you would tell the guy with the knife to stop being a naughty boy and to run along. As for having been in trouble with the law, nope never have been. If I was in the shopkeepers shoes I'd have done exactly the same. To me the guy is a hero. Well played that man.

[mockney piers]

Sorry DC, yes it was.

Again Atila, who is your ire aimed at.

The guy defended himself and killed someone in the process. If killings weren't investigated that would be a disturbing trend.

Police investigated it and felt it to be a clear cut case of self defence, they made their recommendations to the CPS who reviewd the evidence and concurred and didn't bring this to the courts.

So what's making you quiet so upset?

[*Bob*]

January Headline:

"Shopkeeper faces possible murder charge just for defending himself and his property"

February Headline:

"CPS back-down over shopkeeper murder charge"

Don't you just love the press?!

[david_carnell]

[Takes deep breath]

Right - no, poor pay pay doesn't negate responsibility but it's a partial cause. Also, in this instance, and I'll say this real slow, they....did....their....job....properly. Death occurs. Police investigate. CPS informed. Police recommend no action. CPS agree. Case dropped. Can you please tell me what you would like to have seen done differently? The police handing the shopkeeper a medal at the scene perhaps?

"Hardly glowing" - examples rather than rhetoric please - then we discuss this like adults and not a John Gaunt phone-in show.

The rest of your post resembles more a stream of consciousness than an argument. I haven't criticsed the shopkeeper once. He is clearly very brave and should be applauded for tackling a robber esp. an armed one. I'd rather no one had died at all in the incident but I doubt whether I'll lose much sleep over the death of a vicious career criminal. Nor have said anything about my thoughts on the attacker and his criminal record until now. You obviously think I'm some woolly liberal merely because I like my deaths to be investigated thoroughly??! I presume you would prefer vigilanty justice to be metered out by good citizens such as yourself?

[SeanMacGabhann]

There really isn't much more to be said after Dave and Mockney's posts is there?

No-one is saying they would do anything different to the shop-keeper. I'm not hearing anyone take any other side than his. But the CPS did the job you wanted them to do Atila so what's your beef?

The are REQUIRED to look at the case - if they went ahead with a prosecution you would have a point - but given the evidence (much the same as you have furnished us with, give or take a colloquilism ;-) they haven't proceeded.

If I was the shopkeeper and the same events transpired I would be amazed if I wasn't checked out. Otherwise how would we know I hadn't just popped someone I didn't like for the hell of it?

And just to re-iterate, as I'm in Redapple newsagents every day I was horrified to read about what happened a few weeks back. I'm entirely on their side. As I believe you and everyone else on here is. But the CPS role is an important one, it's important they do it well and in this case they have

[SteveT]

I had a few shops in the seventies and early eighties and left the partnership about 83. I firmly believed that all shop keepers would have to be armed within 10 years, the way society was going. We had lost good staff because of unprovoked attacks by opportunist thugs, myself or my partner were never around at the time of course.

I had great sympathy for the staff who could no longer do their job anymore, and nothing seemed to happen to the thugs if by some remote chance they were caught.

I would like to have the stocks brought back, or flogging, or some kind of punishment that changed the thugs life permanently, like they had dished out to our members of staff. I wanted the punishment to fit the crime. No, I wanted to beat them until I was exhausted. Then I would have felt that I had repaid the debt to all our staff who had been attacked or intimidated by unemployable, dead beat, no hope, violent thugs.

[atila the gooner]

SteveT, I'd raise my hat to you if I were wearing one. You are either a terrific piss taker or you aren't afraid to say things which many people feel but are afraid to say for fear of upsetting the pussies who believe the criminal is more deserving of sympathy than the victim, which is wrong, full stop. I've had enough of hearing about criminals who've come from a broken home, come form a poor background, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. All soft, pathetic, namby pamby, puusy, excuses. Tell it like it is, SteveT!!!!

[atila the gooner]

On the subject of mindless criminlas, I see a mugger was killed by his own knife by his victim. Is that the sound of cheering I hear in certain quarters. As the "victim" said after the event "live by the sword, die by the sword". Good f**king riddance, one less mindless prick for the poor taxpayer to have to pay for as he lounges around in prison.

[SteveT]

Why shouldn't we express our oppinions(?) if we can't then this island of ours becomes like Russia was in the cold war when the masses felt too intimidated to say anything to anyone because of the secret police. Hope AnnaJ isn't reading this she might swoop down and wag her finger.

Well I came from a broken home and a poor back ground without CH and hot water and a Lavatory at the bottom of the garden like many millions of ordinary people but if I had started robbing my mother would have beaten me with the poker off the hearth.

Yes Atila that dead mugger will be a great loss to the community pity we no longer have an Australia to ship them to. Perhaps an uninhabited Scottish island might be the answer, the making or breaking of them:))

[mockney piers]

Am I right in thinking that David Bowie used to write his songs by chopping up copies of the Daily Mail and putting the words in random order.My favourite song was Single Mother Slags with those immortal lines

Birds of a feather can't keep their legs together

We should put them on island with immigrants and heather

[atila the gooner]

Give single mothers and immigrants their own land???? Next you'll be advocating giving people over 65 a pension, and caring for the sick.