The next leader of the Labour Party (and other matters)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Fair points all quids and especially the non-change as a result of the financial meltdown

However to me that just means the people haven't yet taken responsibility for their part and actions over the last however many years. Will they ever? Maybe not. Doesn't make them correct or wise tho

[nashoi]

I can't believe how short some peoples memory can be. In 1997 after their biggest defeat in over a century there were plenty of people suggesting the Tories were finished and would never again regain power, the progressive cenrte left had apparently won the argument.

The fact is people are devout capitalists when it comes to paying taxes and staunch socialists when it comes to receiving government largesse. After 13 years of over spending on the country's credit cards the bill has landed on the mat and people are proclaiming the left is dead. Give it 5 or 10 years of cuts though and the country will be full of born again socialists, no matter who the Labour Party has in charge.

[DJKillaQueen]

Yes I think too that the economy over the next four years will decide any election. I wouldn't bet even against another hung parliament. The cuts are going to hurt deep.

Quids is right though in his summation of the UK being a centre placed electorate. New Labour's success came as a result of Thatchers conservatives shifting too far to the right and leaving the centre ground for New Labour to occupy. That is the reason why Blair never sat easily with the left but it was the only way labour were ever going to get elected.

The worst thing that could happen for Labour is for them to swing back to the left. They'd be better off staying in the centre ground (even if it offers little difference between the Coalition and themselves) and then hope to benefit if no recovery comes or the recovery isn't strong enough. They could also hope to pick up former lib dem votes too.

As for ED.....he's just as bland as Cameron and will probably be no more able to lead labour to an outright majority than Cameron was.

[Marmora Man]

The knowledge that Neil Kinnock thinks the emergence of Ed Milliband as leader is surely a major set back?

[SeanMacGabhann]

And us lefties cling to 80s dogma?!!

;-)

[david_carnell]

Glad to see Ed has some balls. Getting Nick Browne to stand aside as Chief Whip might not seem a big deal to those outside Westminster but it is a clear indication of his desire to bury cliques and cabals and unite the party. Much-liked Rosie Winterton is to replace him.

[Marmora Man]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> And us lefties cling to 80s dogma?!!

>

> ;-)

Not dogma Sean - just an appreciation of Kinnock's ability over last few years as an EU commissioner. His analysis and decisions there weren't always first rate!

[????]

Nice to see Harriet saying it's now time for the women to get a go......after she shoe-horned her husband into a safe Labour seat without a mention of "Wimmin only seats"

[vinceayre]

The next election was decided when the unions put in their puppet, its the election after that which will now be decided by a few events yet to happen. They are:

The cuts and any further tax raises will be have to be seen to be equitable, as the child benefit cut has been, after all who cares about a few well off people loosing state handouts, not as many it turns out as the media would have us believe.

How much and how severe the industrial action becomes, the laws to come will require a majority of the union to vote for a strike not just a minority of voting members as is the case now. If these laws happen the union power will diminish which will give Labour a better chance.

Once the labour party has ditched ED after the next election defeat and the Tories have ditched the Liberals who will wonder off into obscurity again, if Labour manage to pick a middle of the road leader they may have a chance in 2020. If not Dave will get 15 straight years in power.

If the actual recession comes that we should have had and not the phoney recession we are in the Tories will lose power before 2020 and it will be a LibLab coalition that is formed "in the national interest" again.

[Huguenot]

"If the actual recession comes that we should have had and not the phoney recession we are in"

That's quite interesting, not heard it before - explain further?

[????]

Next Labour PM Yvette Cooper

[????]

Phoney recession= QE propping up asset prices for now...if it fails then 20-30% fall in gilts/shares/company bonds/ property prices and sunsequent mass business, banking, private and sovreighn bankruptcy and great depression...it's possible.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Might I suggest that anyone who stands and wins against his older brother AND tell's Ed Balls to do one, is in the pocket of nobody, least of all the unions

[????]

A fair suggestion. But might I also suggest that not putting either Balls OR Cooper in as shadow Chancellor is a man whose a bit insecure in his position and putting that/himself above his party?

[JohnL]

losing

a lot of tories are going to be shocked - Labour will probably win the next election !!!!!

especially if the rich begin to boast and brag,

vinceayre Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The next election was decided when the unions put

> in their puppet, its the election after that which

> will now be decided by a few events yet to happen.

> They are:

>

> The cuts and any further tax raises will be have

> to be seen to be equitable, as the child benefit

> cut has been, after all who cares about a few well

> off people loosing state handouts, not as many it

> turns out as the media would have us believe.

>

> How much and how severe the industrial action

> becomes, the laws to come will require a majority

> of the union to vote for a strike not just a

> minority of voting members as is the case now. If

> these laws happen the union power will diminish

> which will give Labour a better chance.

>

> Once the labour party has ditched ED after the

> next election defeat and the Tories have ditched

> the Liberals who will wonder off into obscurity

> again, if Labour manage to pick a middle of the

> road leader they may have a chance in 2020. If not

> Dave will get 15 straight years in power.

>

> If the actual recession comes that we should have

> had and not the phoney recession we are in the

> Tories will lose power before 2020 and it will be

> a LibLab coalition that is formed "in the national

> interest" again.

[JohnL]

So how does Yvette get rid of Ed in 4 years ?

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Next Labour PM Yvette Cooper

[vinceayre]

Huguenot,

The value of unrealised losses/debt held by the banks, insurance company's and government in credit default swaps and collateralised debt obligations is mind numbingly huge,think tens of trillions. These debts have been subsidised by government hand outs to the tune of about a trillion dollars so far otherwise known as debt swap/QE, the banks held the stinky assets and now the central banks hold them, it may work but if it doesn't we will get the recession we deserved a la 1929.

With the massive bankruptcy in the financial sector that started in 2007 and escalated in 2008 culminating in Lehman bankruptcy, with Bear Stearns gone, RBS bankrupt, Morgan Stanley bankrupt, Merrill Lynch bankrupt and the bigee AIG bankrupt and a whole host of other banks world wide gone we should have had a depression on the scale of 1930s, we didn't and all of the banks are now making billions in profit (and not paying tax on that, one of the biggest banks in London now is BoA who are chaneling all of their profits through Merrill's London base and wont pay tax on them for about 10 years) trading the QE cash they were given free of charge. Nothing has changed in reality, the rich are still getting richer.

Its about a phoney as it gets!

JohnL

Labour wining the next election is virtually impossible now ED is in charge, what exactly am i boasting and bragging about and just so you know i voted Labour twice until the idiot scot was put in charge. How do you define rich by the way as a relative term or an exact term and if exact at what point are you no longer poor?

The only way Yvette Cooper gets in is if ED says he no longer thinks Tony Blair was an idiot and war monger and decides he no longer wants the wife and baby positing the thought that rent boys and hookers by the hour are a better bet.

[Jeremy]

Where do I start? Tens of trillions in CDS and CDO... Morgan Stanley gone bankrupt... all banks now making billions in profit and not paying tax... gosh...