silverfox Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 It's just been announced that American Scientists have made an amazing Nobel Prize Winning breakthrough by creating new, synthetic life.The cell has been designed by computer, strand by DNA strand. It's a marriage between biology and Information Technology. It's opened a new frontier in science with many potential applications and benefits in medicine. Many dangers also, with the worry of mutation.Man has now become god-like. Has a terrible beauty been born? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 silverfox Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> It's just been announced that American Scientists have made ... synthetic life.Actually, not quite. There is a fair bit of hype in this story.Venter's group has synthesised an existing genome. It only animates when placed in a living cell. That is not synthetic or artificial 'life' proper.See 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 I don't pretend to understand the process of how this came about but it seems it has divided millions of times now and with each division has replicated the synthetic DNA. By any measure artificial life has been created for the first time.The new frontier that has now opened up is being described as a third industrial revolution with new life forms that probably couldn't have evolved naturally about to be created to capture carbon, provide alternative energy sources and so on. It is a momentus breakthrough.The worry is, are the scientists clever enough to control what they're about to unleash? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
???? Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I'm not a scientist Hal but isn't the point that although you need a pre-existing cell as a host you can theoretically grow a 'created life' in there (In this case bacteria) Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Hal achieved this years ago. He is suitably unimpressed. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 One of my companies has been manufacturing strands of synthetic DNA since 1998. The process of inserting synthetic gene sequences (as plasmids) into living single cell organisms has been around for at least two decades - it's called recombinant DNA or gene splicing.The only "new" thing in this story is that Venter's group has synthesised a single cell organism's entire genome (as one or more plasmids) and inserted it into the enucleated cell of a different organism.Not surprisingly, the new host cell was thus reprogrammed to behave like the original organism whose DNA was synthesised.Don't get too carried away - this is not the creation of life ab initio. It's just another small step forward in the long established field of bioengineering. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladymuck Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 @ HAL9000OK, I am not a scientist either. How different is this to genetic (bio) engineering? I don't understand. Certainly what immediately strikes me is that we are looking at similar concerns here (e.g. ethical, environmental etc. etc.). So a (short) and preferably jargon free explanation would be really helpful (to me). Thanks in advance. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Craig Venter is a brilliant scientist and self-publicist who has made regular 'artificial life' claims for several years now. What surprises me is how the media falls for essentially the same techno-hype on every occasion.Venter's group has made a small albeit significant advance in genetic engineering: it has synthesised and spliced together one or more DNA plasmids large enough to contain the complete genome of the bacterium Mycoplasma mycoides, which is around one million base-pairs long.The breakthrough is in the length of the assembled DNA strands or plasmids - everything else is well-established biotechnology.The synthesised DNA was then implanted into an enucleated cell of the very closely related Mycoplasma capricolum bacterium, which was able to replicate - but scientists have been able to do that part for many years using natural DNA. Natural and synthetic DNA strands are chemically and biologically indistinguishable.All in all, yesterday?s announcement was a storm in a Petri dish.Incidentally, DNA is only the code of life ? it is not life itself. DNA is like the simple dot code recorded on a DVD ? one still needs the highly sophisticated and complex manufacturing, recording, playing and viewing machinery in order to do anything useful with it. The live host cell in this scenario provides all of that machinery. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Hal9000, if scientists managed to recover Mammoth DNA from the permafrost of Siberia and implanted into an enucleated cell of an elephant which then divided and grew, what would the resultant animal be called? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladymuck Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Thank you HAL9000 (somehow I knew you'd know). So basically, the only differences are (a) synthetic (as opposed to purely natural DNA) has been used and (b) the assembled DNA strands are greater in length?In which case many of the arguments/concerns for and against this technology are similar to the ones for standard biotechnology? Except now there is the element of the "synthetic" to be considered? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I'm a great believer in biological and genetic engineering. I think the potential benefits could be huge, and it frustrates me enormously when doom mongers and the religious right-wing try to stand in the way. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Yeah I also don?t get the knee jerk, natural good, synthetic bad bullshit. Ebola is natural. Also at which point does something go from being natural to being synthetic? If I take 2 hydrogen atoms and artificialy force them to bond to an oxygen atom does it make water synthetic? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Jeremy and Brendan, I think you're both confusing being obstructive with those urging we proceed with caution.Up until this breakthrough, every cell, bacterium and virus on this planet has been the result of billions of years of (natural) evolution, where each has competed and fought off competition from others to get a foothold within a particular environment, from underground caves, hot deserts, frozen wastes to extremophiles around underwater volcanic vents and so on. What is now possible is the creation of new forms of life for good or ill. The benefits are potentially incalculable. But those doing the creating will be commercial bodies seeking a profit. Nobody knows what will happen if artificial life starts to mix with natural life. Where are the safeguards to prevent greedy companies unleashing lifeforms with potentially devastating consequences? Any rational person would be concerned and not just the religious right. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladymuck Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Indeed Silverfox.I am neither religious nor right.However my "concern" (as for the GM debate) would be that such technology would need to be tested for many years to ascertain its safety - by which time it may be too late. This doesn't constitute doom-mongering (in my humble opinion). Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-325971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 silverfox Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Hal9000, if scientists managed to recover Mammoth DNA ...> and implanted into an enucleated cell of an elephant which then> divided and grew, what would the resultant animal be called?Mambo!Seriously, if this were done using a pluripotent elephant cell to produce a dolly-the-sheep-type embryo (a highly unlikely outcome, in my view): the resulting animal would best be described as a specific intra-cellular chimera between Mammoth and Elephant biochemistries whose exact composition depends on the procedures used to create it. This particular example should look and behave like a Mammoth. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-326124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Ladymuck Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> So basically, ... ?Well done, you've summarised the issues precisely. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-326150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted May 25, 2010 Author Share Posted May 25, 2010 Interesting article on the BBC website about the use of patents hampering scientific research and hindering many potential benefits. An interesting counter balance to Jeremy's view above.Synthetic life patents 'damaging'http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10150685.stm Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-326820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 This argument has been raging on for years (as a matter of fact I was working in patent publishing 10 years ago, when the human genome was first sequenced). I've always thought that this was abuse of the patent system... patents should protect innovation and ideas, not discoveries.But on the other hand - to play devil's advocate - if companies didn't have the incentive of locking in ownership of their work, would this kind of project by financially viable for them?It's an interesting subject, but not sure it counters my previous post... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-326875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 It was the same Craig Venter who was trying to patent the Human Genome and offer a pay-to-view service back then.I doubt whether he would have been able to raise so many millions in research funds if the prospect of licensing royalties hadn't motivated his investors, though. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-326906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 silverfox wrote:- Hal9000, if scientists managed to recover Mammoth DNA from the permafrost of Siberia and implanted into an enucleated cell of an elephant which then divided and grew, what would the resultant animal be called?Polar Jumbo? A Chillyphant?This reminds me of the time when there was a big hoo-har creating nuclear fission in a tea-cup that turned out to be a big yawn.Until this new life form can be inserted into my computer memory, so that it can grow to the size necessary for one's needs rather than having to buy new, then it is all less useful than bullcrap to anyone with a compost heap. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-331036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Call to regulate artificial life Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-332154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 Interesting HAL9000. Having read more on the subject I've now come to the conclusion that this issue has been over-hyped and the title of this thread is misleading (as you previously suggested). Craig Venter has not created new life - he's modified an pre-existing cell.Still, this has opened up a whole new field, for good and bad. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/11414-new-life-created-brave-new-world/#findComment-332177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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