Naughty Bradley Wiggins ?

[Mick Mac]

Careful Mick.....as ???? said to me four years ago.

The lady on Newsnight representing Sporting Integrity said tonight:

What we might be talking about here is

the overuse of medicines and the correlation with suddenly becoming an elite athlete.

She was speaking in general rather than specific to Bradley Wiggins.

[????]

*coughs*

Nadal

Barcelona

[Blah Blah]

It's a non story imo. Bitter Russians who DID cheat with performance enhancing drugs show how low they really are by trying to discredit athletes who actually win medals because they are better than everyone else shocker.

Common sense tells anyone that all of the named athletes have given drugs tests in pretty much every competition they compete in and athletes can be tested at ANY time during training periods too. In fact, isn't that why the Russians got caught?

[Alan Medic]

It seems drug cheats are usually a step ahead of the testers. I don't know which athlete it was who was recently promoted from 9th position in London or before to a medal winning position. All the others were found to have cheated. Ironically the same guy was throw out of Rio for drug cheating.

[Mick Mac]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's a non story imo. Bitter Russians who DID

> cheat with performance enhancing drugs show how

> low they really are by trying to discredit

> athletes who actually win medals because they are

> better than everyone else shocker.

>

> Common sense tells anyone that all of the named

> athletes have given drugs tests in pretty much

> every competition they compete in and athletes can

> be tested at ANY time during training periods too.

> In fact, isn't that why the Russians got caught?

All of which is completely irrelevant to the OP

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It's a non story imo. Bitter Russians who DID

> > cheat with performance enhancing drugs show how

> > low they really are by trying to discredit

> > athletes who actually win medals because they

> are

> > better than everyone else shocker.

> >

> > Common sense tells anyone that all of the named

> > athletes have given drugs tests in pretty much

> > every competition they compete in and athletes

> can

> > be tested at ANY time during training periods

> too.

> > In fact, isn't that why the Russians got

> caught?

>

>

> All of which is completely irrelevant to the OP

Eh? You posted about a story currently in the news, Blah Blah gave a perfectly sound opinion on said story, can't quite see the irrelevance?

[Mick Mac]

I posted about the overuse of medicines.

Very different from outright cheating but worthy of debate, although as its a British athlete it may not be debated.

[Blah Blah]

But where is the evidence of overuse of medicine? The leaked report shows legitimate use of treatments for things like allergies and Asthma etc, permission for which has to be gained in advance of treatment being used. Even athletes have medical conditions that need treatment from time to time. That is clearly very different to misuse of banned substances for performance enhancing purposes. You are making an assumption in your OP that just isn't true.

[Alan Medic]

Doesn't the term 'overuse of medicines' imply cheating? Why else would there be overuse?

[Blah Blah]

But there is no evidence of overuse. That is just an assumption by the OP. All of the medications prescribed are for conditions from Asthma to Hayfever. Pretty normal stuff. But they are required permission because they contain trace elements of substances that could fail a drugs test. That's all there is to it.

[Alan Medic]

I'm not saying there is. I'm just saying to Mick that overuse of medicine probably equates to cheating which he seems to disagree with.

[Mick Mac]

The view of a cycling doctor

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-controversy-why-one-medical-expert-has-real-concerns/

[Alan Medic]

.....who seems to think that overuse of medicine is cheating, if I've understood it correctly.

[Mick Mac]

Yes - and speaking as an asthmatic who carries a ventolin inhaler and is required to take a steroid inhaler too, I find it surprising that Wiggins is taking what he is taking - this doctor says his injections are what he would expect for serious uncontrollable asthma symptons ;

"Wiggins himself in his autobiography said he had only ever received an injection for an immunisation and some drips. You are not likely to forget an intramuscular injection before every major Grand Tour that you have competed in for the win.

The second aspect is that Triamcinolone acetonide is used to control severe asthma or other allergies that are unresponsive to other forms of treatments.

It is not a first-line therapy and it certainly wouldn?t be something that I would be comfortable giving to a rider as a preventative medicine. So one of two things is going on: either they have prescribed it as a preventative medicine, which doesn?t sit well with me, or he had such serious symptoms that they were completely uncontrollable, and that just happened to happen coincidentally a couple of days before he contested a Grand Tour. And at different times of the season, because the Giro isn?t anywhere near pollen season and nobody suffers from dramatic allergies in the Giro. "

[Alan Medic]

Perhaps all TUE's should be banned. After all if you are an elite sportsperson you should be able to compete in full health without the aid of medicine or drugs.

[Mick Mac]

Well I'm not sure about that, but they should be closely monitored to justify the appropriate use and protect other athletes from the benefits of one athlete's excessive use, where the relevant drug has absolutely proven performance benefits as in this case.

[Otta]

Lance Armstrong was a total hero that overcame cancer and went on tobwin multiple tours.

Until he wasnt anymore...

[rendelharris]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lance Armstrong was a total hero that overcame

> cancer and went on tobwin multiple tours.

>

> Until he wasnt anymore...

But he broke the rules, and Wiggins hasn't. There is a debate to be had about TUEs but amidst all the headlines about Wiggins "fighting for his reputation" it's important to remember that everything he's taken was with the full approval of the UCI's anti-doping doctors.

[Otta]

I couldn't really care less to be honest, was just stirring.

I just dislike him due to his 2012 sideburns.

[titch juicy]

I bet if you looked at stats concerning how many elite fitness athletes 'had asthma' it would be a shockingly high amount. It also wouldn't surprise me if the names of the doctors that 'diagnosed' asthma pop up over and over again too.

[Saffron]

Mick Mac Wrote:

---------------------------------------------

>

> The second aspect is that Triamcinolone acetonide

> is used to control severe asthma or other

> allergies that are unresponsive to other forms of

> treatments.

>

> It is not a first-line therapy and it certainly

> wouldn?t be something that I would be comfortable

> giving to a rider as a preventative medicine. So

> one of two things is going on: either they have

> prescribed it as a preventative medicine, which

> doesn?t sit well with me, or he had such serious

> symptoms that they were completely uncontrollable,

> and that just happened to happen coincidentally a

> couple of days before he contested a Grand Tour.

> And at different times of the season, because the

> Giro isn?t anywhere near pollen season and nobody

> suffers from dramatic allergies in the Giro. "

Corticosteroids ARE a first line therapy for asthma. Moreover exercise induced asthma (EIA) is understood to be a subset of asthma or a unique type of exercise induced broncho-constriction (EIB), for which triamcinolone has efficacy, independent of seasonal allergies or atopic asthma. There's nothing inherently suspicious about its use for EIA, though I wouldn't comment personally on Wiggins's use of course.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/714791_7

[Mick Mac]

Sir Bradley Wiggins

Inhalers

?13 June 2008 - salbutamol (200ug inhalation dosage, as needed for 12-month period)

?12 December 2008 - salbutamol (inhalation dosage, as needed for 12-month period)

?16 December - salbutamol (two puff dosage twice a day for 12-month period), formoterol (two puff dosage twice a day for 12-month period) and budesonide (inhalation dosage twice a day for 12 month period)

2010 Move to Team Sky - Injections begin 2011

?26 June 2011 ? triamcinolone acetonide (50mg intramuscular dosage, one time injection)

?29 June 2011 - triamcinolone acetonide (50mg intramuscular dosage, one time injection)

?April 2013 - triamcinolone acetonide (50mg intramuscular dosage, one time injection

[Mick Mac]

From Wikipedia:

"These included three intramuscular injections of the drug triamcinolone ? a powerful corticosteroid which has been described as a huge performance enhancer.

This is the same performance enhancing drug which Lance Armstrong was convicted of using"

[titch juicy]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sir Bradley Wiggins

>

> Inhalers

>

> ?13 June 2008 - salbutamol (200ug inhalation

> dosage, as needed for 12-month period)

> ?12 December 2008 - salbutamol (inhalation dosage,

> as needed for 12-month period)

> ?16 December - salbutamol (two puff dosage twice a

> day for 12-month period), formoterol (two puff

> dosage twice a day for 12-month period) and

> budesonide (inhalation dosage twice a day for 12

> month period)

>

> 2010 Move to Team Sky - Injections begin 2011

>

> ?26 June 2011 ? triamcinolone acetonide (50mg

> intramuscular dosage, one time injection)

> ?29 June 2011 - triamcinolone acetonide (50mg

> intramuscular dosage, one time injection)

> ?April 2013 - triamcinolone acetonide (50mg

> intramuscular dosage, one time injection

So his Asthma miraculously disappeared between 2008 & 2011 and 2011 and the present day?

[LondonMix]

No, they got caught because of a whistle blower

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's a non story imo. Bitter Russians who DID

> cheat with performance enhancing drugs show how

> low they really are by trying to discredit

> athletes who actually win medals because they are

> better than everyone else shocker.

>

> Common sense tells anyone that all of the named

> athletes have given drugs tests in pretty much

> every competition they compete in and athletes can

> be tested at ANY time during training periods too.

> In fact, isn't that why the Russians got caught?