City bonuses

[Alan Dale]

Removed

[SeanMacGabhann]

They will inhereit the earth Alan ... ;-)

(no wait, that's the meek isn't it.. darn it)

[Brendan]

Wasn?t it the Greek? Or the cheese graters?

[Jah Lush]

Yeah probably a nice town house in Camberwell Grove and that's about it for Camberwell, or maybe they'll have a nice house in Dulwich Village but certainly not East Dulwich. Anyway these people earn enough money without their multi-million pound bonuses. I work hard for a living and although still just a small cog in a wheel I contribute in some small way to the success of the company. I expect a good wage but I certainly don't get an over-inflated performance related bonus whether my company has been successful or not. What these City types get in bonus money compared to the rest of us serfs is deplorable.

[mockney piers]

Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

[Jeremy]

Jah - a lot of city traders actually get paid a fairly modest basic wage, almost all of their salary is in the form of a bonus. Personally I don't have a problem with people earning commission on money directly brought in for the company.

As for the wealth gap... times are changing, these banking jobs are now within the reach of most graduates if they have the inclination, intelligence and willpower. The opportunities are out there for almost anyone.

[mockney piers]

My friend did an audit of La Salles bank a couple of years back outside of chicago. There were a bunch of traders who were busy slapping each other on the back and popping open the champagne corks, bought with the fat bonuses they'd earned for all the profit they'd made the bank.

After looking at the very complicated financials and unravelling all the hideously complex instruments, hedges etc etc these guys had been working on all year, he worked out that the ultimately the bank would have had slightly more money if they'd just put the lot in a high street bank all year and sacked the lot of them.

They refused to believe it at first but he laid it all out for them to see and they couldn't deny the facts.

I'm not against banking at all, and worked in the city for many years. I worked with some excellent people and I worked with idiots who had perceptual hyperinflation regards their value and worth in this world.

[James]

"As for the wealth gap... times are changing, these banking jobs are now within the reach of most graduates if they have the inclination, intelligence and willpower. The opportunities are out there for almost anyone."

Jeremy, you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. Where do you think graduates come from? Council estates? Besides which, why should the rest of us have to live in a world where house prices are grossly inflated by their bonuses? Not everyone wants to be a city trader (I wouln't do it for all the money in the world).

[SeanMacGabhann]

with apologies to James for using the same quote from Jeremy:

"As for the wealth gap... times are changing, these banking jobs are now within the reach of most graduates if they have the inclination, intelligence and willpower. The opportunities are out there for almost anyone."

Again, this misses the point. Even (nay, even especially) if everyone DID want to become a city trader there are only so many available positions. So those that don't get the jobs have to look elsewehere and so on and on.

Anyone can do anything but not everyone can do everything - so how do we look after those that don't make the top positions. There was a time when a teacher or nurse was a relatively good job but if we just laugh at them and say "you have a degree you COULD earn a lot more money" it's not really going to help is it

Excellent post from Mockney which illustrates the fact that a little humilty would go a long way

And of course we are faced with the hilarious situation this week whre, having earned all of these billions, banks are now pleading to the outside sources for help. Bloody scroungers

[Jeremy]

James - I disagree, one of my best friends at University lived on a council estate in Liverpool. He was from a single parent family, they had absoutely nothing... but still managed to get a universtity education.

We all make choices, if you don't want to work in that sort of environment then fair enough. I can understand the appeal of working in creative/media industries. Similarly for nursing, teaching etc. But that's your choice, to complain that your don't get paid as much as those in other industries is absurd. You are the one in cloud-cuckoo land.

[*Bob*]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> James - I disagree, one of my best friends at

> University lived on a council estate in Liverpool.

> He was from a single parent family, they had

> absoutely nothing... but still managed to get a

> universtity education.

My Grandad smoked 60 Park Drive a day and lived to be 80.

I have a number of friends who work in (what might be called 'high-flying' jobs). I reckon around 80% of them went to Oxford or Cambridge. And 80% of those were educated privately.

[Jeremy]

Bob - yes, I accept that this is historically true. But where I work (one of the big banks), new traders are recruited into the industry through graduate programs. There are oxbridge graduates amongst them, but also plenty of other universities.

I hasten to add that I have a very lowly job within this company. But I can accept that there are others who are more talented than me, or who are very driven to succeed.

[Asset]

can we please stop talking about asset stripping? It's disturbing me.

Eddy Gordon (Governor of Bank of England) lives in Dulwich (prob village tho').

[James]

Haha Jeremy, I think Bob's got you there.

We had a female Prime Minister once. So come on all you lazy, thick, talentless women who lack drive, where are you!!? Why aren't more of you in politics? Get on yer bike! (In the words of one politician)

Right Jeremy?

[Brendan]

Hmm. Maybe I would earn a more if I was a bit more driven and didn?t spend all day on internet forums?.

[SeanMacGabhann]

loathe tho I am to defend Norman Tebbit (to whom you refer I believe, James) he never did say that, What he said was

"I grew up in the 1930s with an unemployed father. He did not riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he went on looking until he found it"

which might suggest it but he didn't tell people to get on their bikes

[*Bob*]

It's not all one-in-the-eye for Jeremy. I accept that things are changing year by year. I'm sure his company are making an effort to recruit from a wider spectrum of candidates, just as Oxford and Cambridge are as well these days.

I think the 'very driven' will always succeed, regardless of background. But just below them are a whole load of other people for whom things could have been very different were it not for their personal circumstances. And I don't mean 'Daddy never gave them a seat on the board and a Ferrari'.. It's more basic than that. It can make such a difference to know, for example, that your family could help you out if you got behind a month or two with the rent - even if you never need ask for it.

It makes a huge psychological difference to how you go about life.

[*Bob*]

Personally, I'm an easily distracted, lazy c***, as you can tell by my ceaseless forum postings.

[Jah Lush]

*Bob*, I feel the lyrics to Common People coming on here. "you'll never watch your life slide out of view."

[Jeremy]

James, it's not about getting one up on each other. Sorry if I started to get too personal, btw. I'm just going from my own observations, that's all... and I know from experience that people from modest, even underpriveledged backgrounds can be very succesful in their chosen fields. You mention politics: I believe the same is true here to a certain extent, John Major being a famous example.

And yes, there are lots of women where I work... some in pretty senior positions, probably earning 7 figure salaries. It would be naive of me to suggest that it is just as easy for women to succeed as it is for men, but the situation is rapidly improving.

[Brendan]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Personally, I'm an easily distracted, lazy c***,

> as you can tell by my ceaseless forum postings.

Me too bob. I am convinced it signifies intellectual superiority though. ;-)

[*Bob*]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> And yes, there are lots of women where I work...

> some in pretty senior positions

Phwaor! It's almost worth having a glass ceiling - so you can look up their skirts.

[Jeremy]

Steady on, Bob!

[Alan Dale]

Removed

[James]

If we've never had it so good then why is social mobility worse than it was in the 50s? Why can you predict with 99% accuracy someone's prospects from their postcodes? Try telling the people on the breadline that "they've never had it so good"!

Btw Jeremy, apologies if I was a bit full-on. But the problem with these so-called "working-class" politicians is that there's always the suspicion they're laying it on a bit thick for the common touch. I doubt John Major's upbringing was hand-to-mouth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think we all accept that some will always earn more than others. What is repugnant is the sheer scale of the discrepancy. I would rather go the way of the Scandinavians than the Yanks (remember New Orleans?)