If you're not religious - for God's sake say so!

[PeckhamRose]

The British Humanist Society's Census Campaign.

[SeanMacGabhann]

But not being religious is like not believeing in Santa isn?t it? I don?t need to belong or support Santadoesn?texist society ? or to be preached at to do so

I can just counter any pro-santa arguments as they arise

Creating a society around not believing in God just gives ammunition to those who say not-believeing in God is just another form of religion

[Jeremy]

Sean - I agree with you, but did you follow the link?

[PeckhamRose]

If 'most' people don't believe but our taxes and gov't philosophy is still geared around religion, would that be representative? Of course we can lead good lives without god. In fact local councils do this more successfully (create a society without special regard to the idea that everyone has faith) than governments. And Santa doesn't demand lots of money and insist on special treatment (though marketing companies do that for him). However, I have yet to hear a representative of Santa have a Thought For The Day so may be that should be changed! I'll write to Radio Four immediately.

Yes please everyone follow the links.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I did ? and found it all a bit shrill if I?m honest.

I can fill out a census form

And I agree with the general message they are trying to convey. But the site is a bit? well? you know

[computedshorty]

My personal view is that the least I fill in on any form put to me the better.

To give your religion openly could be seen to others as not of their faith.

How true can a returned form be?

Many just object to giving their details and put the opposite.

Whatever you disclose will at a later date become Public general knowledge.

[Jeremy]

I don't really subscribe to the whole Humanist thing either - I don't feel the need to belong to an organised belief system. But in this case, the message is a good one. I've never understood why some people automatically classify themselves as C of E (or whatever background they're from) rather than what they actually believe.

[PeckhamRose]

Governments make decisions based on what is in the census. Why lie?

We're all going to die, so let's all try and be useful for others while we're alive?

[DJKillaQueen]

There is a point though to this when you consider that no-one really has ever measured the level of Atheism. We monitor for various religious preferences (and that data might be accurate or not) and then just make the assumption that everyone else is of no religion. I think it would be interesting to know what the level of Atheism/ Agnosticism is and within that what the thinking is. I'm sure for example that a humanist may have a different view/ philosophy to that of say Richard Dawkins.

I also think far more people have faith than any survey shows.

[Brendan]

We believe in one authoritative, secular and apostolic organisation.

[PeckhamRose]

"then just make the assumption that everyone else is of no religion".

That's the problem with the census. People just put CofE because that's what they're habit is or their parents did.

It's an interesting concern.

It's better in court than in government. I have to go to court about 5 times a year for work and they always ask if you have faith, rather than "what is your faith?" (making the assumption you have one, which is something the government does).

My word in court is taken no less seriously because I have merely promised to tell the truth, yet I stand against those who promise to God they'll speak the truth and lie blatantly in front of me!

[Brendan]

The communion of unutterable idiocy

And the unexplained self replication of certain proteins coming to a predictable end at some point.

[DJKillaQueen]

Well quite....faith is a cultural label not a way of life (for many people) and the census question aids that. It's a good point because I've done it too. Ticked the CofE box because that's the culture I was born into. I don't do that now because I don't know what my religion is or if I have one. I do have spiritual belief but it fits no religion I know of, although someone told me my views might be those of a Quaker (at least they didn't say Scientology)! So there you go.....maybe I do have a religion after all....do they even list Quaker on the census form?

[PeckhamRose]

I would be so tempted to enter the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

as my religion.

[DJKillaQueen]

HA HA.....

[ianr]

The actual 2001 census question:

"10 What is your religion?

* This question is voluntary

* Tick one box only

- None

- Christian (include Church of England, Catholic, Protestant and all other Christian denominations)

- Buddhist

- Hindu

- Jewish

- Muslim

- Sikh

- Any other religion, please write in

[two ten-character spaces provided]" http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/censusform.asp

"The religion question was voluntary, and 4,011,000 people chose not answer it (7.7 per cent)." http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/commentaries/ethnicity.asp

I don't call that a leading question, and if 70+% of the population choose to tick the Christian box, who is to gainsay them? There are already available statistics - even cited within the Examples of Census Data Use PDF doc http://www.humanism.org.uk/_uploads/documents/Howthecensusisused.pdf (191kbyte) available on the BHA site - as to the much lower figures of actual attendance/participation. So I don't think anything is being hidden.

Paradoxically, if there had been a 'humanist' slot in the 2001 census, I'd probably have ticked it. If one turned up in the 2011 census I might not, if I thought it might be thought to place me in the BHA camp.

[silverfox]

Query.

If the results of the census show that the majority of people in this country are non-religious that makes 'believers' a minority. As such, doesn't this strengthen the arguments and justification for faith schools, ie to protect minorities from discrimination?

[Loz]

the big question is.. will 'Jedi' make the list after it's great success last time?

[Ridgley]

That all depends what, culture you are brought up in there are plenty of minorities that still attends churches on Sundays and Saturdays and they are full as well as other faiths like Islam Judaism. My husband and I are spiritual although I don?t attend church regularly and he does not regularly attend a synagogue.

As for faith schools that and individual choice, I don't feel it is discriminatory at all.

[Jeremy]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Paradoxically, if there had been a 'humanist' slot

> in the 2001 census, I'd probably have ticked it.

How come? Why isn't "none" enough?

[PeckhamRose]

There are several books devoted to what Humanism means.

When asked, I merely say that the difference is humanism is conscientious atheism, ie. you're consciously aware you are living life without a religion, and consciously trying to live a good life, too!

[Brendan]

Sounds awfully theological to me.

[PeckhamRose]

How so? Well unless you subscribe to the view that

I am God!

[jctg]

Wonderfully blasphemous

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/index.php/2010/10/06/fck-off-jesus/

[Brendan]

Well the nature of gods are various and subjective and can be explored regardless of whether you think they warrant belief or even active disbelief. The nature of religion though is pretty simple and easy to identify.