So seriously, does anyone still think that Corbyn is a good opposition leader? Really?

[Otta]

Saw this on another thread

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Truly shite performance from the Corbster -

> Government performs a massive U-turn on something

> you've been asking for and they've been refusing

> to give and it ends up making you look stupid?

> Despair.

And thought it worth a new thread.

I gave up on Jezza about a month after he became leader. Last night I watched PMQs, and just wanted to slap him across the face with a giant fish. He is laughable, and he is making May look good. And she really really isn't good. For her to be given the opportunity to basically explain how things work to him in the house, is just unforgivable.

It's not even that he's not trying to ask the right things, it's just the painfully inept way that he does it (I mean who the fuck is writing his lines for him???). I am no SNP fan, but Angus Robertson basically stood up and showed us how to deliver the question about the NHS / American privatisation. Corbyn had tried to raise it, but just got a bit shouty and was completely ineffective.

So, he won the leadership again, and I don't honestly think his supporters can claim that he's being sniped at anymore. Does anyone still honestly believe that he is going to take Labour forward?

I am still a party member, but am feeling less and less like I want to be.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's pretty dire, I agree.

[TheCat]

I personally don't know how anyone thought he would be a strong, effective leader in the first place.

The fact that the Labour Party has allowed itself to be 'held over a barrel' twice by a few hundred thousand Corbyn zealots is a crying shame....

[Earl Aelfheah]

If there was an obviously strong alternative leader, then they could win a challenge.

[rendelharris]

It's taken longer for the scales to fall from my eyes but - as you've quoted - they well and truly have now. It doesn't matter a damn any more whether one agrees with his policies or not, with a total absence of any chance of power he may as well be spouting them on the EDF as in the Commons, for all the good they'll do. As you intimate, May is one of the least impressive PMs we've had in my lifetime, both intellectually and in terms of oratory, and he can't even best her when, as the other day, she's forced into a huge and (what should have been) humiliating U-turn.

The real disappointment for me has been that I thought whatever happens, at least he's a good man - i.e. if he sees it's a disaster he'll move aside for someone who can win the election (Kier Starmer's looking quite sharp). But he seems to be enjoying the power too much and determined to hang on no matter what.

Like you, I see little point in membership at the moment, especially as even if he does go Movement could quite easily latch onto another equally unsuitable candidate. Depressing times.

[????]

Some of us said straightaway that he'd be terrible - compromised, extreme and incompetent - but you idealists never listen to us pragmatists....

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

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>

> I gave up on Jezza about a month after he became

> leader.

What took you so long?

[TheCat]

There's two major issues at play here in my view...

1 His policies/beliefs, however altruistic, simply will never appeal to the majority

2 As someone above has mentioned, no matter what his policies, when you see the man speaking or being questioned he appears to have the gravitas/charisma/leadership qualities of a wet lettuce leaf....

[????]

However - I do see something in the argument 'What's was the alternative?' - although parking ideology aside, his general shambling incompetence doesn't help. And, agree, to make May look good at PMQs is a feat in itself!

[teddyboy23]

Cat your doing an injustice to wet Lettuce leafs !

[DuncanW]

Didn't rate him from the start, and though I tried to keep an open mind he has been extremely disappointing from the outset.

But I don't foresee anything other than him holding on through to the next General Election at which Labour will get annihilated.

Where we go from there I don't know.

I just checked on Wikipedia though and although the prevailing narrative is that Labour is in existential crisis, the party currently has 229 parliamentary seats (won 232 in the GE). It's worth comparing that figure with those that the Conservatives won in the three elections they lost against Blair.

1997 Major 165

2001 Hague 166

2005 Howard 198

[Loz]

I thought he was bloody awful when he started, but for a while there he was actually getting to grips with PMQs. But, he's fallen away again recently, back to 'bloody awful'.

I think part of the problem at the moment is that he's been protesting against anything and everything for so long and then what is the main subject when he gets to be leader of the opposition? Brexit, which he supports.

But I do see the 'what is the alternative' argument. Personally I think they could do a lot worse than Sadiq Khan, if they could tempt him away from London. Hardly put a foot wrong so far. Apart from that, the ranks are pretty bare.

[teddyboy23]

What about Diane abbot .as long as she takes her medication?

[????]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought he was bloody awful when he started, but

> for a while there he was actually getting to grips

> with PMQs. But, he's fallen away again recently,

> back to 'bloody awful'.

>

> I think part of the problem at the moment is that

> he's been protesting against anything and

> everything for so long and then what is the main

> subject when he gets to be leader of the

> opposition? Brexit, which he supports.

>

> But I do see the 'what is the alternative'

> argument. Personally I think they could do a lot

> worse than Sadiq Khan, if they could tempt him

> away from London. Hardly put a foot wrong so far.

> Apart from that, the ranks are pretty bare.

well, apart from breaking several of his election pledges already - fare freeze being the obvious one but polotics is all presentation

[Earl Aelfheah]

There is no point in overthrowing Corbyn unless you're going to replace him with someone credible. Replacing one inept leader for another is pointless and disruptive and even harder to come back from.

[rendelharris]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> well, apart from breaking several of his election

> pledges already - fare freeze being the obvious

> one but polotics is all presentation

Ah come on Quids, you know the deal on that one - he has frozen all fares under TfL control as he promised in his manifesto. He can't freeze fares which have a National Rail element to them as they are dependent on what the rail companies charge. He's asked the government to join him in the fares freeze for suburban railway services but they've refused, he's asked them to give TfL control of Southern (as they'd promised Boris) but they've refused.

You can knock Khan if you like (though as above I can't see where he's put a foot wrong yet and would love to see him lead Labour) but on that issue he has kept his manifesto pledge, which he never claimed was going to be a freezing of every fare - he couldn't promise that when rail fares are out of his control.

[red devil]

Corbybabes is a classic backbench MP, every party needs them to stir the pot once in a while. He's probably a fantastic MP to his constituents and a very nice guy etc etc. But he was never leadership material. With generation Twitter/Facebook/Momentum backing him he's not going anywhere unless he jumps himself. The start of Labour's decline was when they voted in the wrong Milliband...

[Seabag]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Some of us said straightaway that he'd be terrible

> - compromised, extreme and incompetent - but you

> idealists never listen to us pragmatists....

Couldn't agree more, but I've grown to just love how crap is. It's verging on a Ricky Gervais like performance in 'The Office'

I squirm and gasp week in week out, and I give him 9/10 for sheer crumby-ness. But it seems we're living in a time of completely over the top characters. Him, Farage, Trump and others are like a cast of a revived Spitting Image.

And he leads the Laboured Party, it's tragic.

[JohnL]

Just tolerated - but this 3 line whip is a joke - he hated the EU all along

Call in International Rescue :)

[JohnL]

and in PMQs he prepared one line and couldn't improvise when May had already done the white paper

[Otta]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I personally don't know how anyone thought he

> would be a strong, effective leader in the first

> place.

I have said this before, but I felt after the May 15 DE that things obviously were not working for Labour and needed a shake up. At the start of the leadership race I'd have given my vote to Chukka, then he pulled out. I was then leaning towards Cooper. But as Corbyn's popularity rose, the other candidates used every opportunity to speak publically to tell us not to vote for JC, but none of them convinced me that I should vote for them instead.

I voted JC thinking that he could shift things slightly to the left, then step aside for a fresh face once a fresh face was ready. I never ever saw him as potential PM.

But I freely admit I had absolutely no idea just how shit he'd be. And I don't think he's in any mood to step aside for anyone, because he's believing his own hype from the stupid fucktards of Momentum.

But as has been suggested above, if he went now, they'd put another numpty in his place.

Jo Cox was honestly my hope for 2020, but obviously that's gone.

[Jah Lush]

Folitician.

[red devil]

[????]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > well, apart from breaking several of his

> election

> > pledges already - fare freeze being the obvious

> > one but polotics is all presentation

>

> Ah come on Quids, you know the deal on that one -

> he has frozen all fares under TfL control as he

> promised in his manifesto. He can't freeze fares

> which have a National Rail element to them as they

> are dependent on what the rail companies charge.

> He's asked the government to join him in the fares

> freeze for suburban railway services but they've

> refused, he's asked them to give TfL control of

> Southern (as they'd promised Boris) but they've

> refused.

>

> You can knock Khan if you like (though as above I

> can't see where he's put a foot wrong yet and

> would love to see him lead Labour) but on that

> issue he has kept his manifesto pledge, which he

> never claimed was going to be a freezing of every

> fare - he couldn't promise that when rail fares

> are out of his control.

Has he?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-accused-of-breaking-election-promise-to-freeze-london-transport-fares-a7070496.html

[malumbu]

Trouble is people like us (certainly me) did not get the government of our choice (I'd have been revealed if we'd had more of the same, irrespective that I didn't vote for either of them and Lib Dem traitors). So the fall out was that there needed to be a change in the Labour Party. I expect the majority of labour members would despise much of the liberal educated informed metropolitan etc discussions going on here and give this as a reason that we needed JC.

JC can speak impressively but i don't disagree with most of the views on here.

As for SK, didn't he propose JC in the first place? He's a diamond geezer, God know's how he's going to balance the TfL books, and he is opposed by that Shit Grayling.

So the Tories very cutely targeted the right people with consumer data from their good mates in retail. Some of the better Lib Dems with good majorities were stabbed in the back by their electorate. This led to an unnecessary referendum, the rise of popular-ism, a lurch to the right/nationalism and the unstable mess we are now in. Well that is my conspiracy theory.

Right, I am going back under the covers again. I'll pop up occasionally to read many of the interesting and informative posts. Thanks