A general thread to discuss Trump

[KidKruger]

Why not just try and keep it nice and polite?

If you don?t agree with my comments you could explain why you think they are in accurate.

You don?t prove me wrong by insulting me.

keano77 Wrote:

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> Evil?

>

> How silly

[diable rouge]

Trump is a racist, malignant narcissistic psychopath.

All through his term he's shown he's unfit to hold the office of POTUS.

He needs to go, and he is going.

8 days and counting...

[keano77]

I?m not trying to insult you I just think you are getting a bit carried away which is perhaps understandable given the media hysteria.

I can see why people call the Nazi concentration camps evil, or Pol Pot?s killing fields in Cambodia and many other examples of genocide worldwide.

I fail to understand how anyone can call Trump evil because they might not like him or agree with him.

[Blah Blah]

TheCat is absolutely right about trials in the court of public opinion. The legal system will decide who should be charged and what with, following proper investigation. But as KK says also, dumbing this down as though it was just some frat party that got out of hand, is equally dangerous. People died, and that also needs proper investigation.

Keano, do you really think Trump is the only president that has struggles in the Senate and Congress? Politics is not a fun sport. It is brutal and opportunistic even at the best of times. Undermining is what all oppositions do. Obama was no different or have you forgotten the attacks on his legitimacy too, some of which Trump himself waded in on by the way, because the truth is that Donald Trump is not a very nice guy.

As KK says, the number of people who vote for a party doesn't necessarily legitimise what the leader stands for. 70 million is just under a third of eligible voters in the USA. A good number of those voters are people who always vote Republican no matter who leads.

[TheCat]

KK....you've said a couple of times, there are 10's of millions of 'mini-trumps' which is concerning you. I do think we need to disaggregate the action of voting for trump from loving absolutely everything he stands for or does. I don't think we would call everyone who voted Labour at the last UK election a Mini-Jez.....(Can you imagine!!)

On Keano's point.....I have to agree, I dont think Trump is 'Evil'...but then that very much of course depends on how one uses such a subjective term, so each ot their own on this one I suppose. I think he's dangerous, I think he's harmful, I think he's a twat and I think he's incompetent, but I wouldnt say evil.

[keano77]

..Keano, do you really think Trump is the only president that has struggles in the Senate and Congress?...

No. Why do you ask me that question? I never suggested he was

[diable rouge]

The question that needs to be asked is does Trump have the capacity to be evil if circumstances allowed.

The answer is yes...

[Blah Blah]

Someone gave me this analogy yesterday.

When Henry II lost his temper on hearing of Thomas O Becket's return from exile to cheering crowds and delivered a tirade that included lines like 'What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born clerk!', lines that caused four devoted hothead knights to seek out and murder Thomas Becket ('Where is Thomas Becket, traitor to the king and the kingdom?'), who was at most fault?

Words from leaders matter. They can have devastating consequences.

Now here is the difference. In the aftermath, Henry II, accepted his words incited the murder, and made a public act of penance, visiting the priest's tomb and giving it Royal approval. Not a word of contrition from Trump however, not even for the police officer that was murdered.

[Blah Blah]

keano77 Wrote:

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> ..Keano, do you really think Trump is the only

> president that has struggles in the Senate and

> Congress?...

>

> No. Why do you ask me that question? I never

> suggested he was

I asked the question because you seem to be under the illusion that the flack faced by Trump was any different to any President before him. It isn't.

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Evil?

>

> How silly

We all define our own evil

But after treating Pence like a doormat throughout his presidency Trump then cast him aside and almost got him killed. Some people did die because of Trumps words. That's what a lot of the US papers are seeing in this.

Here's one from the Indy Star (probably liberal lol)

https://eu.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/james-briggs/2021/01/12/donald-trump-ego-nearly-got-mike-pence-killed-capitol-violence/6631013002/

[Blah Blah]

This article pretty much nails the problem....

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/nov/21/can-american-democracy-survive-donald-trump

[keano77]

... I asked the question because you seem to be under the illusion that the flack faced by Trump was any different to any President before him. It isn't...

I?m not sure about that Blah Blah

... But after treating Pence like a doormat throughout his presidency Trump then cast him aside and almost got him killed...

Nonsense JohnL.

[KidKruger]

A bit carried away ? Are you having a laugh ?! The guy pisses all over everything he?s near, he can?t function in society without damaging people. Media hysteria ?

You?re an apologist for Trump even now.

?I fail to understand how anyone can call Trump evil because they might not like him or agree with him?.

That?s because you wrongly assume that I think he is evil because I don?t like him!

You are correct, you do fail to understand.

So evil was invented when death camps and concentration camps came to be?

I don?t think so.

Vagina grabbing, misogynist, rapist, paedophile, fraudster, liar, adulterer, blackmailer, bully, racist, manipulator, traitor. He incited riots which directly caused deaths.

The media didn?t invent any of the above, but if you want to carry on explaining away all these traits by blaming them on ?the media?, you fill your boots mate.

The guy is an evil bastard.

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I?m not trying to insult you I just think you are

> getting a bit carried away which is perhaps

> understandable given the media hysteria.

>

> I can see why people call the Nazi concentration

> camps evil, or Pol Pot?s killing fields in

> Cambodia and many other examples of genocide

> worldwide.

>

> I fail to understand how anyone can call Trump

> evil because they might not like him or agree with

> him.

[KidKruger]

Comparing Corbin and Trump is literally pointless, they bear no relation whatsoever.

Trump is nothing in America without the following of millions of similarly minded mini-trumps, who endorse attacking the capital, are chiefly racist, and would happily see a legally validated election overthrown.

So, Cat, Who is evil? If not Trump? You have the whole world to choose from so who is?

He is a psychopath and he is evil, possibly not by choice but that?s a relevant, as Trump would say ?it is what it is?.

TheCat Wrote:

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> KK....you've said a couple of times, there are

> 10's of millions of 'mini-trumps' which is

> concerning you. I do think we need to disaggregate

> the action at of voting for trump from loving

> absolutely everything he stands for or does. I

> don't think we would call everyone who voted

> Labour at the last UK election a Mini-Jez.....(Can

> you imagine!!)

>

> On Keano's point.....I have to agree, I dont think

> Trump is 'Evil'...but then that very much of

> course depends on how one uses such a subjective

> term, so each ot their own on this one I suppose.

> I think he's dangerous, I think he's harmful, I

> think he's a @#$%& and I think he's incompetent,

> but I wouldnt say evil.

[keano77]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A bit carried away ? Are you having a laugh ?! The

> guy pisses all over everything he?s near, he can?t

> function in society without damaging people. Media

> hysteria ?

> You?re an apologist for Trump even now.

>

> ?I fail to understand how anyone can call Trump

> evil because they might not like him or agree with

> him?.

> That?s because you wrongly assume that I think he

> is evil because I don?t like him!

> You are correct, you do fail to understand.

>

>

> So evil was invented when death camps and

> concentration camps came to be?

> I don?t think so.

> Vagina grabbing, misogynist, rapist, paedophile,

> fraudster, liar, adulterer, blackmailer, bully,

> racist, manipulator, traitor. He incited riots

> which directly caused deaths.

> The media didn?t invent any of the above, but if

> you want to carry on explaining away all these

> traits by blaming them on ?the media?, you fill

> your boots mate.

> The guy is an evil bastard.

>

Interesting view point KK

[Blah Blah]

Psychopathy is a rare disorder and can't be measured without a string of evaluations by a clinical psychologist. Narcissism however is far easier to observe and often is part of psychopathy.

Trump gave some comments to the media today, after staying holed up for a week, in which he is effectively defiant and doubling down on what happened. The man is living in an alternate reality in his own head and that plays into the alternate realities being promoted by too many people on the fringes of his base. That is the issue here. How fit is someone like that to hold office? Anyone arguing he is fit to hold office should really think about what they are endorsing there.

[KidKruger]

Unfortunately, Trump just exposes the degree to which lowest common denominator viewpoints are held.

I guess there is an argument that that is a good thing, because at least it is out in the open to a greater extent than it was and we know what we are dealing with.

It?s going to be depressing to watch how their ?keep America white? position faces-off with the reality of a rapidly changing demographic in the USA (i.e. perpetual influx of nonwhites).

[JohnL]

Don't downplay the massive significance of what Trump did by remarks like "nonsense" - that won't make it go away - it's ramping up by the hour

The Senate Republican leader (McConnell) seems to quietly support impeachment now and wants to purge Trump from the republicans. His friends say he HATES Trump for what Trump has done.

"McConnell has since told others in the wake of the stimulus circus he won't talk to Trump again."

"A source familiar with the relationship between the two men told CNN that McConnell is furious with Trump. The source said McConnell "hates" Trump for what he did last week following the attacks on the Capitol that left at least five people dead including a Capitol Hill police officer."

"Several GOP sources said on Tuesday that if McConnell supports conviction, Trump almost certainly will be convicted by 67 senators in the impeachment trial."

Pence and Trump are not on speaking terms anymore after what Trump did to Pence.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics/mcconnell-impeachment-trump-capitol-riot/index.html

[JohnL]

What P****y word does he mean (is it like a cat).

'Trump told Pence 'you can either go down in history as a patriot, or you can go down in history as a p---y''

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-told-pence-you-can-go-down-in-history-report-2021-1?r=US&IR=T

"Rep. Tom Malinowski, Democrat of New Jersey told The Times. "He's got to understand that the man he's been working for and defending loyally is almost single-handedly responsible for creating a movement in this country that wants to hang Mike Pence.""

[KidKruger]

I watched the voting unfold in the HoR last night (early hours), whereby each Representative voted whether to request pence to enact the 25th Amendment.

It was pro by about 223 / 210 if I remember correctly.

Of course, Pence has already said he won?t use the amendment, but this stage was a pre-cursor / alternate path to the now underway impeachment proceedings.

Besides the actual voting, Representatives spoke of their reasoning for their individual votes - they only had timed slots between 60secs and 2 1/2mins each - but their comments were interesting.

Some of the Republicans voting ?Nay? had ridiculous excuses for why not to proceed with Am.25, even asking ?why would you do this to our president ??, ?this will only cause division?, and ?this is a political move?. !!

Needless to say there were some forthright and impassioned responses from Democrat representatives when they had their turns.

[JohnL]

CNN seems to think they will move over as the Presidents influence on them falls (no twitter now) and the republicans realise they can get rid of him for good.

Some Republicans are radical - there's a QAnon representative.

[KidKruger]

To save the Republican Party that?s probably part of what they need to do.

[diable rouge]

Can't see how the GOP recovers from this, whatever happens there'll be a split of some kind...

[Blah Blah]

Hence the idea of a civil war being metaphorical, and relating to the fight for the Republican Party now. The Trumps are not going away though. Ivanka has hinted she may run in 2024 and aspire to be the first female president (although Biden may step aside to give Harris that honour at some point of course). There is no question that Trumpism has radicalised parts of the Rupublican Party, but they as a party have to decide what to do about it. Winning elections is going to be increasingly difficult if they do not reach out to a range of ethnic groups.

[Alan Medic]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Hence the idea of a civil war being metaphorical,

I'm not so sure. Time will tell, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of sh*t happening soon. I've read so many things that would be a cause of worry if they were true. Some GOP representatives are apparently of the same mindset as Trump. A little thing like refusing to go through the metal detector on entering the House, only acts to undermine its authority. It's sending a message.