Any advice re buying extra garden?

[gm99]

I am considering approaching a neighbour to offer to buy part (about 15m2) of their unused garden and wonder if anyone here on the EDF has done likewise and/or can offer any advice? In particular, guidance on an appropriate value, the legal process, and any pitfalls to avoid would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

GM

[Tarot]

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[computedshorty]

If you are only going to use it as a garden it would not be worth while buying it but if you intend building on it look at their deeds.

[gm99]

When I was growing up a friend's parents bought some garden from a neighbour who had more than he needed and was, presumably, happy to cash in.

In the present case, the garden in question is like a bramble jungle and only used occasionally by the local foxes. I would love to have some extra space (for gardening not building) and perhaps the owner would be happy to turn part of their garden into cash.

I'm just not sure how to go about it, or what would be a reasonable price, hence the request for advice.

Incidentally, my guess is that the cost of moving house would be massively greater than the value of 15m2 of land - plus, I like my house and am happy where I am. Nothing ventured, nothing gained etc.

[womanofdulwich]

could you just rent it? treat it a bit like an allotment?

the price you need to pay is whatever they want- which may be the extent to which not owning the gardens deflates the value of ther property, plus all their costs and fees for changing the legal title.

[tllm2]

Just to add my tuppence worth ................. we tried exactly the same thing. Our neighbours garden was overgrown to the extent that they could bearly get out of the back door, so certainly weren't avid gardeners or in fact even went into the garden at all.

We wrote the neighbour a short letter (not wanting to put the single lady under any pressure by putting her on the spot about it), making an opening offer for a rear portion of her garden, making clear that we were happy to negotiate - which would have made our garden L shaped.

Unfortunately she didn't respond at all ......... so our offer fell on deaf ears........ and we have since moved.

Perhaps my only word of advice (or caution) whichever way you want to look at it ............... is do try and be as careful as you can to preserve neighbourly relations ..... ours didn't break down, as she didn't speak to anyone in the first place, but would hate to think it might turn into anything ackward for the future.

[Tarot]

Maybe if you just want to grow things ,like to eat.,you should chat to your neighbour, offer to sort their garden out and see if they would agree to you cultivating a vegatable plot for them ,where your pay would be a share in the produce. Its a long shot though,some people would see it as to invasive. Apart from that if you are that keen, youll have to put yourself on a allotment waiting list. While you have the long wait for that, you could hire yourself out as a gardener.

[Pugwash]

One of our neighbours offered to buy a section of the garden - we declined as would mean that the garden would be much shorter than the other gardens on our side of the road and would look odd. Would have meant knocking down and rebuilding 2 boundary walls, notrifying Land Registry and possibly have had to do something with the house deeds ( house was under a mortgage at the time) For the sake of losing about 6 feet - it was not worth the bother

[gm99]

Thanks all - some useful perspectives and ideas. In my case there is only a single fence between the two gardens, so that side of the practicalities would be quite easy to deal with.

Pugwash, any chance you could reveal how much your neighbour offered (by PM if preferred). Similarly tllm2, how much did you offer - and how did you decide on that amount?

If anyone else has any experience/advice they can share I would be most grateful.

Cheers,

GM

[Applespider]

Bear in mind that it might not be their idea not to use the garden.

About 2/3rds of our 'long' back garden is brambles and home to foxes. The closest third is used by the basement flat. Unfortunately, the back 2/3rds belongs to the old freeholder of the house who would one day like to build on it since there is an access road to the back. So while we'd love to use it, we're not allowed to - and there's no access from the closest third. When we bought the freehold of the house, he still refused to allow access to the land.

I'd agree with womanofdulwich that offering to 'rent' it might be the best idea. The neighbour may not be allowed to sell depending on mortgage etc but if they really are unable to look after it for whatever reason, they may be happy for someone to knock it into shape and use it since presumably, they'd have a nicer outlook.

[louisiana]

Not an experience, but just an observation: on Thorpewood Avenue north side (Forest Hill) there are some very different sized gardens, seemingly as a consequence of the builder keeping the lion's share. This resulted in his garden going behind at least one other (of course, the property was later sold, no longer belongs to him). It's a fab garden, and really the extra width of land makes quite a difference. This garden now opens as part of the Open Gardens scheme.

[sophiesofa]

If I were you I'd just knock on the door or post a letter just asking if they'd be interested. We have a long garden and are on a corner and did consider approaching our neighbours to see if they wanted to buy a bit so we could have some money to sort out the inside of the house so you never know, they might be interested. My grandad sold a bit of his garden and got completely ripped off by a property developer so people do well parts of their gardens.

[Huguenot]

Land is panifully expensive in London.

One way of calculating it is to try calculating the 'new build' cost of your property and subtracting it from the market value, then dividing it by the land area.

For example a 3up 3 down in ED may sell for ?500k on 150 sqm of land. It'd cost ?300k to build a similar house from scratch, so that values the land at ?200k.

That would give a land cost of around ?1,300 per sqm - which sounds about right.

That would value that 15 sqm of land and about ?20,000, which makes it hardly worth the value if its simply for aesthetics.

[Huguenot]

Here's land in Sydenham at ?1,100 per sqm.

Here's land in Highgate at ?2,600 per sqm.

It make sense that ED would be between the two but somewhere near the bottom end.

[sophiesofa]

Blimey, my Grandad sold his in leatherhead approx 100 sqm for ?1000 total! So he was well and truly done over but luckily he thought he'd got a good price so will never know.

[tllm2]

I don't have any better suggestions in terms of a formula, but surely the fact that both those sites (at those prices) have seemingly easy right of access and a piece of non-accessible, landlocked by other house/garden, piece of land, could be valued at something very different again.

[Jeremy]

That's true... accessibility and planning permission (or likeliness of) makes a huge difference to the value of the land. Still, Huguenot's suggestion sounds like a useful upper limit.

[silverfox]

Is it their land to sell - ie freehold? If they have a mortgage the bank/building society will have a charge over it and will need to give permission.

As you want to buy it to extend your garden rather than redevelopment it probably won't be as expensive as those examples given. However it will still cost whatever the neighbour wants for it. are there any covenants on the land? Are there any services over the land or under the ground, eg, drains, sewers, telephone cables? if so will people have to go through your house to access these services if something goes wrong to maintain them. how many adjoining neighbours will you now have if you buy this plot. will you need to put up new fences to satisfy more than one neighbour and guarantee via covenants that you will not put up structures on the plot that may affect them?

So, let's say to manage to get 15ft long x 25ft wide plot for ?5,000. Add up to ?5,000 for legal fees, searches, land registry, ?1,000 for fences. Only you can decide if that's good value.

[tllm2]

Legal fees, searches, land registry fees - are in the hundreds not thousands of pounds league ............. it wouldn't be that much different from the process of house buying ............

[silverfox]

Tilm2 can you please give me the name of your solicitors because in my experience I've never got away with bills of less than a couple of thousand.

[tllm2]

Hall and Co. (opposite Dulwich Library) - the thing that usually bumps up the costs is stamp duty, which is very unlikely to be applicable for a piece of garden ...............

[silverfox]

True. ?5,000 for legal fees is probably too high a figure as long as it is a fairly straightforward transaction

[Pugwash]

If I remember correctly as it was many years ago, we were offered about ?2000 but friends advised due to the cost of land at the time ( it was the time that mortgages were sky high and land prices had risen) that ?5000 was more appropriate

[Indiana]

One of my neighbours did this a couple of years ago - bought about 20 foot I think and it made such a difference to their garden.....allowed their kids lots more play space and meant they will stay in the house much longer. Sorry I don't know how much for though.

[Carrie]

Huguenot's figure is probably be about right. If your neighbours have a mortgage the land would have to be released by the mortgage company who may require a partial redemption of the mortgage before agreeing to do so. From your neighbours point of view whilst this might result in a slightly lower mortgage with slightly lower payments each month they would have no lump sum in their hands to pay for a round the world cruise or whatever.. so may not be particularly attractive to them. It is unlikely to add much to the value of your property (unless you have a minute garden at the moment) but may devalue their property if they end up with a much smaller garden. If you intend to stay in the house you are in for years to come it might be worth going for it - if you see yourself moving on in a few years time might be better to see if you can come to an agreement with your neighbour to rent it from them.