Ireland Bail Out

[JohnL]

RBS and Lloyds have 80 Billion potential debt in Ireland

If Ireland goes down - I think those debts become real - and our government pays.

[Tarot]

.

[Loz]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What is a mystery is why did Eire, join up with

> "The Union", Why were there all the troubles with

> the English, death and destruction, not to be

> ruled by them, and wanting unifiacation. Then just

> agree to be ruled by some inadaquate, so called

> Union of Europe. Its a crumbling tower, and when

> they sort through the ruins, we will see all the

> little fat rats ( E.M.Ps) in the papers.) Tony

> Blairs made his fortune and moved on. after

> signing our U.K away without even a referendem.

> That was not democratic.

OK, I'll bite. How exactly did Tony Blair "sign the UK away"? What powers did he give away? Which part of the UK "Constitution" required a referendum? How many people ever read the Maastrict treaty? Why doesn't anyone vote UKIP?

The EU and the Euro has it's (many) flaws, but at the heart of it is a good idea. Small is not beautiful in world markets. The EU is our biggest trading partner and UK businesses have to contend with currency variations, which puts them at a competitive disadvantage in that it leaves them with extra costs as they have to hedge the Euro.

There are many argument both for and against the EU/Euro. A taxi driver's rant really doesn't cover any of them.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Iceland had nothing to do with the Euro or EU and they were/are equally fucked

being ruled by Britain (with all of the attendant inequalities - you can guess which ones surely? or maybe I'm crediting you with too much) is ENTIRELY different to entering a union voluntarily to co-operate with other countries

How did Tony Blair sign the UK away exactly?

That only mystery is how you manage to get so many things wrong

[SeanMacGabhann]

dammit - Loz beat me to it

I don't think tarot is a troll btw - just seriously, disturbingly deluded

[Mick Mac]

One thing is for sure. Its a great fall from grace for the irish people. For once they appeared to have shaken off their past as a poorer nation and a lot of that was achieved with hard work and endeavour only for it to go tits up through the greed of a few and an over ambitious financial system.

[Loz]

through the greed of a few

Sorry, I don't buy that. Yes, some people got more money than others, but the greed was widespread across Ireland and the UK. Like the UK, everyone that could jumped onto the gravy train (or, in Ireland, upon the Celtic tiger's back). I'm sure that house prices were talked about at dinner parties across Dublin.

Whilst banks have to take a good proportion of the blame, the little guy/girl on the street was happy to play along while the money was coming in and credit readily available. Now the manure has hit the air-conditioning unit, it's all "not my fault - damn bankers". Sorry - we are all to blame for this mess.

(Disclaimers: I am not a banker. I do not work for a bank. I do have a couple of bank accounts and a mortgage, though.)

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm with loz all the way on this

Never mind Dublin the small towns across Ireland were pregnant with people who never had money spending and borrowing like noones business. And they didn't take kindly to anyone giving them pause for thought

[Tarot]

.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Ooookaaaaaayyyy

[karter]

Ladies behave, there's more to life than money.

[Loz]

You could do with reading lessons, Tarot. It was me that likened your rant to that of a taxi driver - not it has to be said, you with a taxi driver.

[martin]

?ire: Republic of Ireland (Irish: Poblacht na h?ireann)

may i just point out that ?ire has not existed since 1949 and that the unoccupied territories of the island are now known as the Republic of Ireland

[en.wikipedia.org]

i thank you.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Karter

It's nowt to do with money. When someone has plain cuckoo as tarot starts rabbiting shite people have to correct them.

I mean.... Ireland was part of a union with Britain, comparable to the eu? That's just insulting

[Mick Mac]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> through the greed of a few

>

> Sorry, I don't buy that. Yes, some people got

> more money than others, but the greed was

> widespread across Ireland and the UK. Like the UK,

> everyone that could jumped onto the gravy train

> (or, in Ireland, upon the Celtic tiger's back).

> I'm sure that house prices were talked about at

> dinner parties across Dublin.

>

> Whilst banks have to take a good proportion of the

> blame, the little guy/girl on the street was happy

> to play along while the money was coming in and

> credit readily available. >

I'm afraid its not the case Loz - the small scale borrowings of the general public are not sufficient to bring down an economy unless you get significant defaulters.

The Irish had its property oligarchs, a relatively small group of big hitters who did not know when to stop and were never asked to, Quinlan and the like owning London prime real estate. Its little to do with the little guy in the street.

The property loans are going bad and the assets are now in public hands. The individuals responsible are largly bankrupt and the government hold empty buildings which noone ever needed.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don't think it's about amounts of money Mick

I thinks it's about a culture. If the man on the street wasn't so happy with piling on his own little (or indeed relatively large) debt then the big guys wouldn't have had the ecosystem to thrive.

[karter]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Karter

>

> It's nowt to do with money. When someone has

> plain cuckoo as tarot starts rabbiting shite

> people have to correct them.

>

> I mean.... Ireland was part of a union with

> Britain, comparable to the eu? That's just

> insulting

I'm not getting dragged into this :),it's all about money and politics and you know it.

Find the light guys then conversation over.

[huncamunca]

MickMack -the past decade has been a feeding frenzy of capitalism for the Irish on all levels, it is incorrect to point the finger at one bunch who were at the party. Satying that though, the Irish goverment & its social/ economic elite are a bunch of corrupt rapacious shitbags who filled their boots.

I saw the "Celtic Tiger" as more of a pPaper tiger back in the early 00's and am not proud or take any pleasure to say I have been proved correct.Anyone with the slightest in economics should have been aware of what was looming in the not so distant future.

As well as the home boom in houses, much of the Middle and Eastern European house market bubble was funded by borrowed Irish money - those new cars and sexy holidays that became the norm for many irish were always going to bite them on the arse.

Down with this sort of thing

[Loz]

Careful now.

[Brendan]

I hope they can still afford a bit of sun cream. They're going to get terribly burnt in Australia.

[Tarot]

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[Keef]

karter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ladies behave, there's more to life than money.

Drop your prices then.

[Mick Mac]

Sean died in the wood? Noone told me, that's very sad.

[Mick Mac]

huncamunca Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MickMack >

> I saw the "Celtic Tiger" as more of a pPaper tiger

> back in the early 00's and am not proud or take

> any pleasure to say I have been proved

> correct.Anyone with the slightest in economics

> should have been aware of what was looming in the

> not so distant future.

I'm not sure you were right about the paper tiger though - you prediction was nothing more than its too good to be true in a Vince Cable sort of way. But Ireland's growth was a genuine increase in economic wealth. The country generated increased business revenues etc, as I responded on the George Osborne thread before.

The Irish economy was based upon attracting businesses to Ireland, making use of the low corporate tax rates and the strongly educated english speaking local workforce. The country was in demand from companies from across the world.

The economy was smartly run at first and was growing long before other countries came out of the last slowdown.

One of the problems was that the EU restrictions prevented them raising interest rates, outside a narrow band linked to the rates in France and Germany which were still in slowdown. This is one of the major restrictions in the eurozone which limits your ability to control your own consumer spending.

Thus borrowing money remained cheap and the cheap money was too easy for the greedy property guys who borrowed and built and borrowed a bit more and buitlt a bit more. Ghost towns.

Its principally builders, property companies and hotel complexes that are going bust. The bad loans on these "enterprises" are being bought back from the banks by the government to save the banks.

Like the USA's sub prime, we are all going to pay for some of it. I suspect the UK will lend the money to Ireland and hopefully get the money back.

You refer to you understanding of economics, on what did you base your paper tiger theory?

[Emerson Crane]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sean you come across as a dyed in the wood

> Irishman,

Do you think the name is a bit of a giveaway?