Attempted break in

[georgeeepee]

Hello

Just to let you know whilst I was sitting on my back step Tonight st 7.50pm a man climbed over the side door and tried to get into my garden. It was dark and I couldn't see him properly and mistook him for a neighbour and then realisd he was pretty big and big someone I knew and o threatened him (terribly politely idiot me) and he got aggressive and then ran I called the police.

I called 101 instead of 999 because it wasn't an emergency but even so they came found in 30 mins and later they came back to say they might have found him.

Really lovely people but bluddy hell early evening someone breaking in?!? I think it was because we have timer lights for security that go on the same time every day. I'm not going to say ironic - just be careful x

[geobz]

Which road?

[georgeeepee]

Dunstans Road

[James Barber]

Hi georgeeepee,

How truly scary.

You should get some advice from local Police about how to harden your property to reduce chance if this happening again. Please let me know if you don't and I'll chase.

[georgeeepee]

Hi James

Thanks for your advice - we actually have nails and screws with the pointy bits sticking out attached to the top of our garden gate (like the old broken glass in the 80s) and 2 ft of extra trellis above that after we were broken into two years ago.

And Charlie (Who you must work with and our hero) lives next door!

The police were brilliant - and came back to tell me they think they might have caught him. but I was just shocked that it happened at 7.50pm not 4am!

Thanks again I'm ok just a bit shaken

Georgie x

[emu]

The break in on Woodwarde Rd last week was similar at 7.35 pm. Very bold as plenty of people around

[gabys1st]

Neighbours' (Marmora Rd) alarm went off between 5.30 - p.m. last Sat. Are key-holders so husband went to check house, all looked in order however the next day the back door was found to have been tampered with.

[Charlie Smith]

Being a neighbour, georgeepee came to my door last night to tell me about the attempted break in. I advised a call to 101. The police came quickly and have been marvellous. They returned later to say they may have apprehended the culprit. I have told georgeepee I will buy some anti climb paint and get up myself and apply it to the parapet wall.

Hopefully this will deter anyone else who might try to get in.

I attend the local police neighbourhood meetings. They say this kind of crime is often opportunistic. A thief will see a window or a door slightly open and can be in and out in a couple of minutes. Now the weather is turning warmer, there is the temptation to live a window or a door open for ventilation. It might be worthwhile fitting a chain to the front door and restrictors to all ground floor windows. It would also advise locks to side and rear doors be at least 5 lever security locks. Often insurance companies insist on strong security locks as part of policy conditions.

The Dulwich Community Council have allocated funds to purchase "Smartwater" property marking kits. These when used, will imprint a unique mark on your property. Your property can be identified back to you if it is stolen and subsequently retrieved by the police. If any residents living in the East Dulwich Ward would like such a kit, please get in touch with me. And finally, if you see someone who you think is acting suspiciously, maybe 'casing a house' then call 101 with the location and a description.

Yours Sincerely

Councillor Charlie Smith

Deputy Mayor of Southwark

East Dulwich Ward Member

[singalto]

Can someone clarify whether nails and screws on top of fences is legal?

[rendelharris]

All householders have a legal duty of care to prevent injury to anyone coming onto their property, even if they're a burglar or other trespasser. The police don't encourage such things due to the risk of being sued. It's not illegal to have such preventative measures in place (though if they're in an area lower than 2.4 metres the council can order their removal under the Highways Act) but if someone does injure themselves, even if in the act of committing a criminal act, the householder can be liable. Not saying that's necessarily fair, but that's my understanding.

ETA (and this may be subject to severe BS as it's based on half-remembered conversations with my barrister sister) I believe the success or otherwise of any legal action would depend on whether the householder could foresee the risk of injury and has warned against it, so for example if you have a big sign saying "Warning, barbed wire," or metal railings with obvious spikes on top, it would generally be seen as the perpetrator's fault - if the top of a ten foot wall has glass embedded in it so that someone jumping from below can't see it that might be a different matter.

One thing in favour of the householder is that anyone convicted of a crime such as attempted illegal entry would have to ask the convicting court for permission to sue the householder for the damages incurred in the commission, permission which would be most unlikely to be forthcoming.

[Penguin68]

However, dog-rose hedges, or other (naturally growing) thorny barriers would not be so treated. And encourage both bees and birds (rose-hips). There are numbers of spiny friends you might consider.

[geobz]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All householders have a legal duty of care to

> prevent injury to anyone coming onto their

> property, even if they're a burglar or other

> trespasser. The police don't encourage such

> things due to the risk of being sued. It's not

> illegal to have such preventative measures in

> place (though if they're in an area lower than 2.4

> metres the council can order their removal under

> the Highways Act) but if someone does injure

> themselves, even if in the act of committing a

> criminal act, the householder can be liable. Not

> saying that's necessarily fair, but that's my

> understanding.

>

> ETA (and this may be subject to severe BS as it's

> based on half-remembered conversations with my

> barrister sister) I believe the success or

> otherwise of any legal action would depend on

> whether the householder could foresee the risk of

> injury and has warned against it, so for example

> if you have a big sign saying "Warning, barbed

> wire," or metal railings with obvious spikes on

> top, it would generally be seen as the

> perpetrator's fault - if the top of a ten foot

> wall has glass embedded in it so that someone

> jumping from below can't see it that might be a

> different matter.

>

> One thing in favour of the householder is that

> anyone convicted of a crime such as attempted

> illegal entry would have to ask the convicting

> court for permission to sue the householder for

> the damages incurred in the commission, permission

> which would be most unlikely to be forthcoming.

Stupid laws made by stupid people, I remember 20+ years ago an aunt of mine got sued by the berglar asking for damages because her stairs were slippery and he felt and broke his leg. He won the case as well.

In the US (most states if not all) its legal to shoot someone trying to get in which is the one extreme side. Here if the berglar can't get in and he gets any kind of damage he can sue you and make money the other side of extremism.

[ianr]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------

> One thing in favour of the householder is that

> anyone convicted of a crime such as attempted

> illegal entry would have to ask the convicting

> court for permission to sue the householder for

> the damages incurred in the commission, permission

> which would be most unlikely to be forthcoming.

Where does that remarkable provision reside?

[rendelharris]

I did warn subject to severe BS and I'm not a lawyer. However home protection sites often say this:

The Criminal Justice Act 2003 provides some protection to householders. For instance if a trespasser suffers an injury during the course of a crime, for which they are subsequently convicted, they will only be able to sue the occupier or landowner with the court?s permission. If it can be shown that there were adequate warning signs and the deterrent was clearly visible this is unlikely to be given.

Someone else might be able to tell you if that's true. I seem to recall that in the Tony Martin case the surviving burglar had to go to court to ask for permission to sue, rather than just issuing a suit as one might normally do.

[DulwichLondoner]

Well, we are also in a country in which the police don't chase suspects riding away on motorcycles/scooters and without helmets, because if the distinguished gentlemen were to injure themselves, it might be the police's fault. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32904622

However, I think it's important not to end up with American trigger-happy hysteria; it is a fact that harsher penalties, pro-gun laws etc have not made the US safer - quite possibly the contrary.

Have you ever noticed the kind of locks and doors most households have in continental Europe? Ours are a sad joke by comparison. I remember enquiring about security steel doors, and the only ones I could find where those by an Italian brand with a reseller in Kensington: http://www.kensingtonsecuritydoorsandwindows.co.uk/about-us/ Banham stuff is ridiculous, by comparison! In the end I decided against it because it seemed silly to spend thousands of pounds on a front door, while it was uber-easy to gain access to my balcony with just a stair from the street, so I installed an ADT alarm with big ADT shields by the balconies as deterrent. Installing security doors and windows is possible but costs a fortune. These doors probably make more sense if you are in a flat which cannot be easily accessed from the street (e.g. third floor or higher).

[robbin]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> -------------------

> > One thing in favour of the householder is that

> > anyone convicted of a crime such as attempted

> > illegal entry would have to ask the convicting

> > court for permission to sue the householder for

> > the damages incurred in the commission,

> permission

> > which would be most unlikely to be forthcoming.

>

> Where does that remarkable provision reside?

It's in the 2003 CJA but it only addresses situations such as self defence (i.e. when a crime is being or just about to be committed - not really applicable to putting glass or nails on a wall).

The Occupiers Liability Act 1984 is the one which provides for the duty of care to trespassers (the 1957 OLA being concerned with lawful visitors).

[James Barber]

I'd suggest trellis with thorny climbers over broken glass and nails. Looks nicer and even more of a deterrent as it ends up higher obstacle to scale.

Charlie mentioned Smartwater. Since 2008 we've buying SelectaDNA property marking kits. Smartwater or Metrace has a much shorter shelf life and costs more than SelectaDNA.

Either way if you'd like a kit please email me your details and I'll drop one round.

[geobz]

Yes SelectaDNA rocks!

So you get robbed, then IF the police EVER finds anything, it comes back to you.

So for example if someone steals your windows10 laptop, then in 10-15 years (Estimated recovery time), you'll get it back!

[Doona Harv]

breaking in are happening alot its a good thing that you are safe and better call police first then to look into matter yourself.

[marigolds]

I posted the message below a week or so ago. Burglaries seem to be happening at more unexpected times. Early evening 'pop in for a burgle' maybe not so unusual. Scary for georgeeepee to come face to face with someone in the garden!

"I live close to Woodwarde Road. Next door neighbour broken into at 6.30pm on a Friday, a couple of weeks ago, neighbours were in, on both sides. Last week, house opposite broken into at 7.30pm mid-week, again all immediate neighbours in. Both houses had alarms. From my house I saw someone in the house across the road (after the alarm had been ringing for a couple of minutes), went over and banged on the door.

Police said burglaries are 'prolific' in this area. Both times burglars (police say usually a pair, one inside passing stuff to the one outside) climbed on rear extension and broke first floor windows"

[vaidotasgen]

You should check some secure doors and windows

These are the best sellers in UK in my opinion

https://secure-house.co.uk/