Student Protest

[computedshorty]

The actions of some of the Protesters have now caused any sympathy to their support lost.

To attack any person going about their own personal pleasure in a place away from the place of protest, is just actions of thugs.

These persons that do the damage are seen on closed ciruit TV, that will identify them, and if found guilty could be convicted under laws regarding attemps on the Royal Hair to the Throne that are still in use.

Will they object when the verdict is OFF with his head?

[mockney piers]

Ah, the good old days of heads on spikes ;-)

I don't think sympathy has been lost. I think most people feel that saddling students with 40k debt as a start in life for those trying to better themselves is detrimental to those affected and society as a whole.

The roles that will need filling for the challenges ahead also aren't necessarily paid that well, but the effects will be very very expensive indeed.

Short sighted shit policy, if no ones listening to sense, then breK some windows and egg the royals!!!!!

[????]

The time to be an , idealistic, unrealistic, anarchic, bourgoeis class warrior, 'scourge of the establishment' troskyte idiot is when you're a student surely? It's those that take any of it past their 25th year who are the morons. I was quite glad to see the 'yoof' can still rebel, aided by rent a mob no doubt.

[louisiana]

Rent-a-mob often being the Socialist Worker mob. Never backward in hijacking legitimate protest for their own purposes.

[Keef]

I agree it's a shit policy, but I agree with computedshorty that the thugs are doing the peaceful protesters absolutely no favours.

[Santerme]

Sad and pathethic on behalf of the scum bags who hijack events

Remarkable restraint on the part of the police

The downward spiral continues

[SeanMacGabhann]

where and when did that start? And where is it going?

[mockney piers]

Grumpy old man in "it's all gone to the dogs" declaration shock ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

The rent-a-mob aggro crowd don't do anyone any favours 'tis true. But the police tactics aso manage to hack a lot of peaceful protestors off too

Also worth noting that for all the "it only loses them public support" rhetoric, the fact remains that all of this is deeply unsettling for the government and is more likely to cause some form of change than, oooh I dunno, a million people peacefully protesting against the Iraq war

[Santerme]

I have almost nothing to be grumpy about MP

I have two daughters in Uni

One of whom is at UCL and went to the protest

As for the spiral it started with Nu Labour and governance by poll numbers and lists and we have elected more of the same

So where it will end is anyones guess

[SeanMacGabhann]

but how does a violent protest on the streets of London indicate anything

Violent protests in London have been going on for centuries

[????]

er quite how will it cause change Sean? The Bill got passed last night. it's done and dusted. It's uncomfortable for the Govt... a bit (the violent protests probably helped them though) and especially for the Lib Dems, but it's gone now, it's 'probably' the most singulalry contentious thing they'll have to do and Labour hasn't come up with any alternative other than protes, and attack which makes them look like an oppostition rtaher than a govt in waiting. If there was an eklection tomorrow the LD would lose many seats largely to the tories...lot of noise ZERO affect as indeed did the Iraq protests as you said.

[mockney piers]

Well said smg.

Peaceful protest achieves nothing. Riots bring about change.

Maybe the government should use the age old tactic of killing the leaders then changing policy, simultaneously and pragmatically realising that they've got it wrong whilst getting to look strong and spinning themselves as a champion of the people.

That was John Kerry's failing; you should always kill people when flip-flopping.

[mockney piers]

Dave Davies said something interesting last night. The government always win the vote, politics is about whether they win the argument.

This is not done and dusted.

Only having fun Santerme, though I'm a grumpy old man too.

I agree that much has gone wrong thanks to nu labour, but I'm not seeing a desperate downward spiral of society, though I do see some facets of society doing that.

Rioting isn't one of those, there's an exceedingly healthy tradition of rioting and sedition in this country and it's actually in many ways thanks to that rather than in spite of it that we are the wonderful country we are today.

Freedoms and concessions from those in power are always fought for, never granted.

[????]

Riots bring about change solely...hackneyed crap. Sometimes they do but do you want a list of violent protests including thoose that escalated into terrorsim and civil war that didn't bring about change, still haven't in many cases and arguably delayed change/reform in many...it'll be huge. Chomskyte rubbish Mockers.

In this case it will damp squib away is my prediction.

[mockney piers]

Actually I'm not a fan of Chomsky, I'm saying this as a historian.

As horrible as the civil war was we sure as hell wouldn't be the same country we are without it.

Straw man anyway, I don't see terrorism or civil war as a result of student fees, I see a legitimate expression of anger.

We may not like it, we may condemn it from our very comfortable ivory towers, but that doesn't stop those doing from being justified and that doesn't mean it won't bring about change.

Look back, from wat Tyler through chartists, to notting hill, broad water farm, toxteth, Brixton, poll tax, Bradford to name but a very small few, stuff happened as a result once the dust settled and tiresomely judgemental chattering dinner party types forgot about it.

You are a patronising sonofabitch sometimes quids. Time of the month, you've been very old skool quids the last couple of days?

[Keef]

???? Wrote:

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> er quite how will it cause change Sean? The Bill

> got passed last night. it's done and dusted. It's

> uncomfortable for the Govt... a bit (the violent

> protests probably helped them though)

Not quite law yet, but getting there (unfortunately). I agree that the violence has completely played in to the government's hands, allowing them to claim a moral highground.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Quids ? I?m not as sure as you this will be the most contentious bill this government will pass

But if you believe that when it next comes to legislation which might be unpopular, the scale of the protests won?t have some effect on ministers thoughts then I would genuinely be surprised

That doesn?t mean unpopular legislation is necessarily wrong of course, but there will be many many instances in this governments life where they might wish they had listened a bit more. This lot have a tendancy to behave as if they were given a huge mandate

[????]

Well they've taken up the recommendations of an independent enquiry set up by a Labour Governemnt to look at filling the unsustainable funding of HE...not a bad mandate and one Labour seem to be ignoring/avoiding. When we invent the money tree that pays for first rate education, health etc then let me know, until then I'm happy supporting a coalition which is making some very tough decisions to maybe stop our economy, and with it some sort of semblance of some sort of welfare state, going down the drain. The opposition to this is largely unrealistic and negative with little else suggested, Ed Milliband needs to let us know what he'd be doing sooner rather than later if he wants millions of x Labour voters (that includes me) to even contemplate coming back. Unfortunatelty, for the mob, they need us non-shrieking, non demonstarting, non-reliving the 80s back in millions and they're miles away from it at the moment, they just sound like protestors not anyone seeking to govern. I'm impressed by this coalition governemnt to date, thank god they are taking some action in extremley tough times rather than vacillating in the name of not upsetting anyone.

Edited 'cos even I couldn't put up with the typos

[Jeremy]

University eductation should be free, but with fewer courses and places. Degrees should be in academic subjects, for the brightest n%.

I don't agree with students having to pay 9k a year tuition fees, but neither do I agree in paying for students who are just there for the ride.

[mockney piers]

Hear hear.

Are we also in agreement that media studies doesn't count?

History is fine obviously!

More vocational/practical stuff should still be free and available to those who want to better themselves. I don't think seeking a return to an elitist system is right, just a better thought through one.

[DulwichFox]

What happend to peaceful protest:-

In spring 1978, 100,000 people marched six miles from Trafalgar Square to the East End of London (a National Front hotspot) for an open-air music festival organized by RAR (Rock Against Racism" and the Anti-Nazi League, to counteract the growing wave of racist attacks in the UK.

The concert featured The Clash (as seen in the film Rude Boy),Buzzcocks, Steel Pulse, X-Ray Spex, The Ruts, Sham 69, Generation X and the Tom Robinson Band.

The Police flanked both sides of the column and in general engaged in friendly banter with the marchers.

The only trouble was when we passed an East London Pub and the marchers were bombardied with bottles

from the National Front. There was no retalitary action from the marchers.

It is possible for 100,000 to march peacefully.

The route needs to be carefully planned and adhered to.

It was a great day.

[Keef]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> Hear hear.

> Are we also in agreement that media studies

> doesn't count?

> History is fine obviously!

>

> More vocational/practical stuff should still be

> free and available to those who want to better

> themselves. I don't think seeking a return to an

> elitist system is right, just a better thought

> through one.

American Studies. WTF

[mockney piers]

Shhhhhhhhhhh

[Jeremy]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> More vocational/practical stuff should still be

> free and available to those who want to better

> themselves.

Absolutely, of course it should.

But a 3 year degree programme is not necessarily the right environment or format for such things.

I just think that Universities should be centres of excellence... you might call that elitist, I really think the tuition fees will be a barrier to entry for many. A step back to the fundamentals would at least make it sustainable.