nissan leaf electric car

[Dickensman]

This car can drive a 160 kilometres (or a hundred miles to you and me) in between charges,

the 160K will be determined by temperature, driving conditions, and the collective weight of passengers carried.

Interesting to consider what would happen to these cars if they got snowed up in large numbers on the motorways.

You couldn't pour in a gallon or two of fuel to get them going, they would each have to be individually towed away

from the scene to be charged up.

[Huguenot]

Unlike a petrol car, of course, electric cars don't burn up fuel when they're stationary ;-) Be a little cold though. Having said that, it get's far colder in Canada, and they say all you need to heat the car is a single candle! Always keep one in the dash!

The promotional material for the Leaf makes it very clear that these are not motorway cars - they're town cars. The average distance driven by car in the UK is 20 miles. Well within the capacity of a Leaf. That is what they were designed to target.

If you want a 'distance' electric car buy a Tesla (250 miles per charge) or a Daihatsu Mira (350 miles). If you want greater assurance than that then buy a hybrid.

You wouldn't buy a bicycle to haul containers Dickensman, you'd buy a lorry. That doesn't mean bicycles are rubbish.

That aside, I think it's a wee bit destructive to try and manipulate extraordinary weather as a justification to attack electric vehicles. The massive upside (40% increase in fuel efficiency in the UK) of electric cars far outweighs the occasional freak weather disadvantage.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but you could interpret your snide comments as a deliberate attempt to undermine those who are trying to create a better world for us all. Nothing too clever about that.

[Jeremy]

An overreaction, Huguenot. I don't think it's snide to question the wisdom of a car which costs over 20k, and is only suitable for certain types of journey. Most of us can only afford - or indeed want - one car, so need that car to be flexible.

On the plus side, electric vehicles will be very reliable, and the technology will improve. But unless they can triple the capacity, speed up charging, and roll out a huge number of charging stations... battery powered cars are going to struggle. Hydrogen seems likely to provide a better solution than battery power.

[Brendan]

How many of them will you need to kill Jeremy Clarkson?

[Huguenot]

"Most of us can only afford - or indeed want - one car"

Whilst technically correct if by 'most' you mean slight majority, we're still talking huge numbers that have two cars. We shouldn't use flippant assertions to allow these people off the hook.

Over 30 percent of households now own 2 cars, the average distance travelled for the second car is only 15 miles per day. That's around 7m 'second' cars that could easily be little electric runabouts - almost 25% of the UK 31m total.

The number of households with a car over two litres has grown from 2m to 4m in the last 10 years. A completely pointless and greedy self-indulgence.

If marketing electric cars only serves to draw people's attention to these kind of ignorant and selfish decisions then it will have achieved something.

[sedgewick]

Stuff your electric spaz waggon, give me a V8.

[katie1997]

Brendan Wrote:

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> How many of them will you need to kill Jeremy

> Clarkson?

42

[Brendan]

Hmm. Well that's sorted then.

Now, how many will you need to kill him horribly?

[katie1997]

Brendan.

The guy wears trousers* UP TO HIS ARMPITS.

The number stays the same. It's a horrible way for anyone to go.

*in fact, worse than that. Double Denim.

[Dickensman]

Huguenot wrote:-

you could interpret your snide comments as a deliberate attempt to undermine those who are trying to create a better world for us all.

I believe like many others Huguenot it could be a better world without all these cars.

As for 'these people trying to create a better world for us all', some might argue they are in it for their profit and not for the good "of us all", at all.

I quoted the facts about this car in terms of driving range so I fail to see where the snide comments are stated, unless of course I have somehow damaged your purse possibly being filled by Nissan.

[Santerme]

What for Leaf II

My business partner was out in Frankfurt with Nissan a couple of months ago

It will double the range and Leaf I's value will drop like a stone

[Huguenot]

There you go again, Dickensman. Another snidey comment implying that those campaigning for a more environmentalist approach are conmen looking to line their own pockets.

If, as you say, you would like to see a world less choked with gas guzzlers then it's not an inspired approach.

[Jeremy]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> We shouldn't use flippant assertions to allow these people off the hook.

Eh? Who shouldn't be left of the hook? Not sure I understand that one.

Of course cars like this will have a small market, car manufacturers aren't generally stupid. As a second car, in a family which needs 2 cars, who have a garage with a power outlet available, and can afford to buy a compact car for the price of a Merc C class... who are prepared to sacrifice flexibility for lower fuel costs and less environmental impact.

These are early days for electric cars, and as Santerme says, it won't be long before today's models look hopelessly outdated. When you can get 250 miles out of an electric car, and the cost is more like 15K, then I'm sure we'll see them catching on in a big way.

[Dickensman]

Another snidey comment implying that those campaigning for a more environmentalist approach are conmen looking to line their own pockets:- wrote Huguenot

I do not suggest they are 'conmen' they are your words.

Nissan are the same as any other business driven by profit,

but they're certainly not the philanthropic outfit you would have us believe.

Tell us all Huguenot why this strange behaviour of an intelligent man like you leading us up the garden path,

how do you benefit from electric or petrol cars, what is the axe you have to grind.

That's a fascinating point you have high-lighted Santerme, good man!

[Dickensman]

Leaf it well alone then....

Leaf it out.....

Leaf off!

[Huguenot]

"how do you benefit from electric or petrol cars, what is the axe you have to grind. "

If you don't know the answer to that, then you are truly plumbing the depths of daftness.

"I have somehow damaged your purse possibly being filled by Nissan" and "you leading us up the garden path"

I haven't accused you of anything Dickensman. You've accused me of being both corrupt and deceptive.

I genuinely think that's very sad. I think you are a sad man.

[Dickensman]

I haven't accused you of anything Dickensman, wrote Huguenot.

Snide comments?

[Huguenot]

snide/snīd/Adjective

1. Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks".

That wasn't an accusation Dickensman, that was a statement of fact. I appreciate that you may not have liked it, but my advice is that if you don't want to be described as snide, don't be snide.

Anyway, don't be cross, don't resign yourself to the collapse of society. Fly the flag, be proud. It'll make you happier.

[sedgewick]

Patronising and snide, sublime slime.

(tu)

[Huguenot]

I think all this "I'm not getting one because there'll be better ones in the future" malarkey is disingenuous.

It doesn't stop you buying a PC or a telly, why should it apply to a car?

The reason it apparently doesn't apply to a car is because you're looking for excuses.

You petrol car is only convenient because everyone else is carrrying all the cost.

[Jeremy]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think all this "I'm not getting one because

> there'll be better ones in the future" malarkey is

> disingenuous.

>

> It doesn't stop you buying a PC or a telly, why

> should it apply to a car?

Because current PCs and TVs are fit for purpose. This car is not.

Your impassioned (and rather aggressive) defence doesn't change the fact that the car looks... you know... a bit of a dud.

Promising technology, just not quite ready.

Edited to say - when I say "fit for purpose", I'm talking about the average car buyer, who needs a bit more flexibility than simply a daily commute or school run.

[Huguenot]

Sorry Jeremy, I simply think you're being dishonest there.

The car is demonstrably fit for purpose, on average people drive a miserable 20 miles a day - they could drive it for five days without a recharge.

There would be exceptional circumstances (8 times a year? honestly?) when you'd need to get a hire car for long distance touring. I don't see why this is a hardship - just a mild inconvenience more than funded from the 2,000 quid a year you save on fuel costs.

If you don't like the way it looks, that's entirely subjective. There's plenty of people choosing fugly cars out on the roads today.

So really all you're doing is perpetuating damaging myths, you know they're myths, but you keep on doing it anyway.

If electric cars don't take off it'll be because people tell lies for ulterior motives. There's plenty of people out there looking for an excuse, yourself included.

Sorry if you find these statements 'agressive', I'm trying to be matter of fact.

[Jeremy]

Average journey length is not the problem, so you can stop trotting that one out! I would say that round-trips of over 100 miles are not exceptional at all, it's certainly possible that even an occasional car user would want to do such a journey around 20 times a year. You say that you'd save ?2000 a year on fuel costs, but that's ignoring the fact that you have to spend an extra 10k in the car, compared to an equivalent petrol model!

Not only do you argue your case using finger-in-the-air assumptions about neceesary journey lengths, you also back it up with blatantly googled info on long-range electric cars (one of which is a top end supercar, the other is a prototype). Your argument is not to be taken seriously.

I am not perpetuating any myths, I've not told any lies, and I actually have quite a balanced perspective on this. I'm excited about the future of electric cars, I am simply suggesting that the technology and infrastructure is not quite ready yet.

You, on the other hand, insult people by accusing them of lies, snide behaviour, and making excuses - all while putting far more spin on your argument than myself or Dickensman! Whenever the subject of motoring comes up, you think it gives you a reason to be rude and talk down to people. IT DOESN'T.

I'm not really interested in discussing further - you lack the ability to debate, all you can do is argue.

[Huguenot]

Ha ha!

Don't pretend you're being reasonable. "I actually have quite a balanced perspective on this" is not compatible with blatantly polarised, incorrect and sweeping judgements like 'It's not fit for purpose'.

Neither are you being consistent. At least I bothered to look it up instead of just airily pontificating:

"it's certainly possible that even an occasional car user would want to do such a journey around 20 times a year"

Followed by..

"Not only do you argue your case using finger-in-the-air assumptions about neceesary journey lengths.."

Didn't spot that did you? Little bit of finger-in-air assumptions from yourself? At least I had the honesty and integrity to put a question mark after mine - positively highlighting, reinforcing and apologising for the fact that it was a guess.

Your correction to 'not fit for purpose for a primay vehicle' is simply a strawman - a demonstration that you want to win the argument, not come to a considered solution. I've focused my attention on city runabouts and 'second' cars. You can't negate it by talking about the Leaf not peroforming a role for which I haven't recommended it.

I'm not surprised by how angry you're getting, because I get the feel that anti-environmentalism is fuelled by very specific issues with male identity.

Anti-science is a hangover from school - where the geeks got bullied because they made the average joe feel inferior. Anti-authority attitudes are about ancient silverback genes spurring competition in the sexual hierarchy. Socialist ideals are unattractive to British males who nuture independence as a coping mechanism for identity anxieties.

I've never tried to say this vehicle meets every requirement, but I've certainly pointed out that there are substantial misconceptions, prejudices and outight denial that infests these criticisms.

I've pointed out the 7m cars in the UK are 'second' cars, I've pointed out real usership figures.

All of which have fallen on deaf ears, because it's nothing to do with the car.

[Jeremy]

Again, you are using spin in an attempt to discredit my character. Anti-environmentalism, suggestions of macho tendencies, etc. There is no basis for any of it, it's pretentious, patronising pseduo-psychology. And you wonder why I'm getting annoyed?

Yes, I plucked a figure from the air (actually more from personal experience) to counter yours... sorry about the lack of a question mark, if only I had your integrity and honesty!

It's no longer about the car... I could talk all day about electric cars and clean energy with somebody who is actually interested in discussing the subject. You obviously are not. You are more interested in belittling, insulting, and vilifying people who dare to have a slightly different opinion to you. Sorry, but that is just not interesting to me.