Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Jeromy Corbyn refuses to comment on Labour's policy on Trident..


..but on a much more important subject plans to introduce 4 more Bank Holidays

to unite the countries of the UK.


Let's all dust down our old Duffle Coats and Donkey Jackets and Unite to sing the Red Flag.


#Dinosaur


DulwichFox

The idea of more bank holidays is great for those who will get paid on these extra holidays but will it benefit those on zero hours contract and those paid low rates on an hourly basis? I'm not sure of the current legislation.


On another topic, if Marine Le Pen wins the second round of the French election, and everything seems possible these days, I do not want to remain in the EU.

In France the young are more likely to be anti-EU and the baby boomers more pro-EU, completely the opposite of the Brexit vote. A lot was said about the domino effect of Brexit, Trump and then Le Pen, but the French were always more likely to go against what the 'Anglo-Saxon world' had done...

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeromy Corbyn refuses to comment on Labour's

> policy on Trident..

>

> ..but on a much more important subject plans to

> introduce 4 more Bank Holidays

> to unite the countries of the UK.

>

> Let's all dust down our old Duffle Coats and

> Donkey Jackets and Unite to sing the Red Flag.

>

> #Dinosaur

>

> DulwichFox


But May is just itching to fire those Nukes as a first strike in an extreme situation (like someone criticises her leather trousers at G20) - Kaaapppoowww.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-nuclear-weapons-first-strike-michael-fallon-general-election-jeremy-corbyn-trident-a7698621.html

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree, it's another form of 'populism', just not

> the far right-wing/nationalistic type that was

> forecast.



In some ways agreed. But I think the differences between Trump/Brexit and Macron are more striking than the similarities. Both have an 'expect the unexpected' quality for sure - but Trump/Brexit is almost defined by being 'anti-expert', whereas Macron is the archetypal intellectual.

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> France respect intellectuals in general.


Not sure how much this is true any more ? you hear quite a lot of sneaking regard for what the French see as Anglo-Saxon 'get up and go', in contrast to French stasis. And many French people think, rightly or wrongly, that the paternalistic and technocratic experts of the postwar French elite have got them into the mess they're in.

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> France respect intellectuals in general. Here it's

> almost seen as a mark of shame now to know what

> you're talking about.


As Frederic Raphael (I think) once said, England is the only country where being called clever (as in "too clever by half") is an insult.

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> you hear

> quite a lot of sneaking regard for what the French

> see as Anglo-Saxon 'get up and go', in contrast to

> French stasis.


But so far Macron seems to have successfully combined the 'get up and go' with the intellectualism. A good combo, surely.



And many French people think,

> rightly or wrongly, that the paternalistic and

> technocratic experts of the postwar French elite

> have got them into the mess they're in.


I'm sure that's right. But I think Macron's combination of the pragmatic and the intellectual might put him into a new bracket which will distance him from these concerns. Of course lots of French people will be resistant to his ideas - but I suspect more will support him.

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> As Frederic Raphael (I think) once said, England

> is the only country where being called clever (as

> in "too clever by half") is an insult.


I wonder where this prejudice comes from? I bet it's a relatively 'modern' thing - nineteenth century maybe? Does it go with the birth of schools for the elite that focused on creating 'empire builders' on the sports field rather than scientists ?

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> >

> > As Frederic Raphael (I think) once said,

> England

> > is the only country where being called clever

> (as

> > in "too clever by half") is an insult.

>

> I wonder where this prejudice comes from? I bet

> it's a relatively 'modern' thing - nineteenth

> century maybe? Does it go with the birth of

> schools for the elite that focused on creating

> 'empire builders' on the sports field rather than

> scientists ?


I think it's a lot to do with the class system - in a society where high political and military position was more predicated on one's birth than one's abilities the clever person was seen as a pushy upstart trying to usurp the natural order.

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it's a lot to do with the class system -

> in a society where high political and military

> position was more predicated on one's birth than

> one's abilities the clever person was seen as a

> pushy upstart trying to usurp the natural order.


Clever is a bit of an insult though - I wouldn't take

it as a complement - it means you can do very well

with tactics but not with strategy.


Wise is the word for for long term knowledgeably

but you don't hear many people called that. Maybe

because most people acclaimed as brilliant (especially

intellectually in politics) fail eventually.


Maybe the British realise that or maybe English

just has too many words.


-

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jenny1 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > rendelharris Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > >

> > >

> > > As Frederic Raphael (I think) once said,

> > England

> > > is the only country where being called clever

> > (as

> > > in "too clever by half") is an insult.

> >

> > I wonder where this prejudice comes from? I bet

> > it's a relatively 'modern' thing - nineteenth

> > century maybe? Does it go with the birth of

> > schools for the elite that focused on creating

> > 'empire builders' on the sports field rather

> than

> > scientists ?

>

> I think it's a lot to do with the class system -

> in a society where high political and military

> position was more predicated on one's birth than

> one's abilities the clever person was seen as a

> pushy upstart trying to usurp the natural order.



The insult/anti-illectual thing was/is to do with the abstract intellectualism of philosophy I think - we've always been fine with the more pragmatic academic subjects

???? Wrote:

the insult/anti-illectual thing was/is to do with

> the abstract intellectualism of philosophy I think

> - we've always been fine with the more pragmatic

> academic subjects


I'd disagree with that actually ????. If you think back to the eighteenth, nineteenth and even early twentieth centuries most of the British innovators in the fields of engineering and medicine had to go to Germany, or sometimes France, to get an education. We were obsessed with the supremacy of 'The Classics' in higher education for a long time, to the detriment of science and technology. Scotland was ahead of England in that regard.


As to Wales and the Tories. Shocking.

See that Lib Dem membership is rising exponentially - there could be surprises yet.


Meanwhile, anti-intellectualism is a condensation of multiple factors (i.e. it over-determined): it rains a lot here (cold water on abstract ideas), we style ourselves as practical people of affairs, the industrial revolution made us self-certain about our practicality, we are protestant and have that ethic, we have an ambivalent relation to the French (whose language is more precise and whose tradition is more cerebral (thought) whilst yet also more visceral (cuisine)), we won against the Germans so their philosophy is rubbish, we took from the Scottish enlightenment a certain scepticism (Hume) without understanding its depth, the ruling class survived the late C18th, we established no great artistic traditions (in music between the great Purcell and the great Britten, in painting between cave dwellers and Bacon), the public school phenomenon, we stifled women's voices until very recently, we are in train to the special idiocies of American pragmatism, the Church of England, we still believe in monarchies, cricket. Perhaps above all, we established English as a universal language, so thought that it expressed the universal (oh dear oh dear; whereas the French were able to problematize their own categories of thought). A certain na?ve positivism and honest pragmatism amounting to no more than bad faith and cultivated stupidity.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • In what way? Maybe it just felt more intelligent and considered coming directly after Question Time, which was a barely watchable bun fight.
    • Yes, all this. Totally Sephiroth. The electorate wants to see transformation overnight. That's not possible. But what is possible is leading with the right comms strategy, which isn't cutting through. As I've said before, messaging matters more now than policy, that's the only way to bring the electorate with you. And I worry that that's how Reform's going to get into power.  And the media LOVES Reform. 
    • “There was an excellent discussion on Newscast last night between the BBC Political Editor, the director of the IFS and the director of More In Common - all highly intelligent people with no party political agenda ” I would call this “generous”   Labour should never have made that tax promise because, as with - duh - Brexit, it’s pretending the real world doesn’t exist now. I blame Labour in no small part for this delusion. But the electorate need to cop on as well.  They think they can have everything they want without responsibilities, costs or attachments. The media encourage this  Labour do need to raise taxes. The country needs it.  Now, exactly how it’s done remains to be seen. But if people are just going to go around going “la la laffer curve. Liars! String em up! Vote someone else” then they just aren’t serious people reckoning with the problem yes Labour are more than a year into their term, but after 14 years of what the Tories  did? Whoever takes over, has a major problem 
    • Messaging, messaging, messaging. That's all it boils down to. There are only so many fiscal policies out there, and they're there for the taking, no matter which party you're in. I hate to say it, but Farage gets it right every time. Even when Reform reneges on fiscal policy, it does it with enough confidence and candidness that no one is wringing their hands. Instead, they're quietly admired for their pragmatism. Strangely, it's exactly the same as Labour has done, with its manifesto reverse on income tax, but it's going to bomb.  Blaming the Tories / Brexit / Covid / Putin ... none of it washes with the public anymore  - it wants to be sold a vision of the future, not reminded of the disasters of the past. Labour put itself on the back foot with its 'the tories fucked it all up' stance right at the beginning of its tenure.  All Lammy had to do (as with Reeves and Raynor etc) was say 'mea culpa. We've made a mistake, we'll fix it. Sorry guys, we're on it'. But instead it's 'nothing to see here / it's someone else's fault / I was buying a suit / hadn't been briefed yet'.  And, of course, the press smells blood, which never helps.  Oh! And Reeve's speech on Wednesday was so drab and predictable that even the journalists at the press conference couldn't really be arsed to come up with any challenging questions. 
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...