Oxford University student who stabbed her lover in a drink & drug fuelled row could be spared jail

[robbin]

Can't answer the other questions, but as to the last one, it's not just juries that Jaywalker thinks are inferior to him/her. Maybe that's a clue.

[TE44]

I think where the high court has made a ruling the

Government have acted unlawful and beyond there power, causing lives to be put at risk, accountability and possibly criminal charges should be brought. Unfortunately often the Government will appeal, this often allows the law

breaking to continue.

[jaywalker]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "unfairness: the predispositions and world-views

> of judges, the pantomime of the trial, the

> ill-educated nature of juries, the refusal to see

> social determination of crime (ressentiment and

> revenge, all the time)."

>

> 1 Why do you think those prejudices only lead to

> unduly harsh sentences?

>

> 2 Why do you think it harms the independence of the

> judiciary when one part of the judiciary reviews

> the conduct of another part?

>

> 3 Why do you think juries are inferior to you?

1 We have one of the harshest criminal justice systems in the world (and the harshest outside of Turkey in Europe). We pay attention only to retribution, and only lip-service to rehabilitation. This is partly due (there are more important factors) to the socio-economic-gender background of the judiciary (obviously not all the judiciary): public school, Oxbridge, male.

2 Because the determination of sentencing is best done in the light of the testimonies of the Crown Court, rather than in reaction to a review ordered by the AG. Again, this is by no means the major issue: rather tariffs as determined by Parliament are the problem.

3 I am in favour of the jury system. I think it should be protected. But I also think juries should be better educated (to be sure my sample size is only three, so perhaps I was just unlucky).

[uncleglen]

It was inevitable that the government steps in over too lenient sentencing because judges have a very narrow view of the 'real' world and the general public is often outraged at too lenient sentences. I believe in prevention being better than cure and it is well documented that young kids show sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies at a young age and almost no intervention takes place. I personally taught one when he was 12 and it was obvious there was something up....

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> judges have a

> very narrow view of the 'real' world and the

> general public is often outraged at too lenient

> sentences.

This is an argument made by people who have very little experience of the criminal justice system. Criminal judges spend thousands of hours a year listening and reading about the most depressing, harrowing crimes, depraved people, people horribly abused, people at the absolute lowest points of their lives, and their circumstances, and addiction, and poverty, and illness, and evil...and you think they don't know what the real world is like? You think the social media consultants, shopkeepers, stockbrokers and scaffolders know more than they do about this stuff?

I know a judge that spent a year and a half doing nothing but child sexual assault trials. She is not Oxbridge, white or male. She started out as a duty solicitor not a million miles from East Dulwich. There is a huge shortage of judges in England and Wales.

And of course 90% of criminal trials are dealt with at magistrates courts. Magistrates rarely oxbridge lawyers, and usually not lawyers at all. In fact you could apply.

And finally it's a myth that judges are more lenient than the public - there have been loads of studies in which real life fact matrices were given to members of the public along with sentencing guidelines, and the public almost always gave a more lenient sentence than was actually handed down.

[Borky]

I have found judges/recorders to usually be well versed in the consequences of their sentencing and judgements, as well as being pretty much fair and straight- not many hang 'em high ones left these days. Magistrates on the other hand...