Live below the line

[Annette Curtain]

If 20 people pooled their ?1, could the 20 people eat better together on the combined money ?

( greedy guts, trough hogs aside )

Nette.(?)

[DJKillaQueen]

I would say yes. That's what tended to happen in the big brother house.

[acumenman]

The more that join the better your chances, because you can barter when you buy in quantities,

and you can buy large 'economy' sizes.

Dishing each portion from the same sized ladel, would avoid greedy pigs.

[HAL9000]

One can obtain much better value for money by shopping around and buying only serendipitous bargains and bulk special offers: For example, I recently bought the following:

1.5 Kg Swede 45p

1 Kg Carrots 29p

1 Kg Parsnips 39p

2.5 Kg Potatoes ?1

Total ?2.13

That's about enough vegetables for a family of four for a week - 53.25 pence each or 7.61 pence per person per day.

[nashoi]

Let me guess HAL9000, your real name wouldn't be Baldrick, by any chance?

[Alec John Moore]

Having read Jeremy's last post above I feel I should be writing "Slinks off with hunched shoulders and downturned mouth having been patted on the head." However, It isn't easy to refute the point that food is cheaper in poor countries by using readily available information from the great interweb. I did find this fascinating set of comparisons:

http://www.rustylime.com/show_article.php?id=1497

It is quite amazing to see the differences in variety of types of food and the degrees of processing and packaging at the extremes of the range of countries and families depicted in the photos.

Still, the more important point - if we accept that people living on US$1.25 are in extreme poverty - is about the percentage of our income we spend on food. According to Oxfam "Poor people in developing countries spend between 50-80% of their income on food". In the UK, according to the ONS, it is about 15%. So, I think it will be an interesting challenge to see how I will be able to cope with the inconvenience, hunger and time spent keeping within my limit of ?1 a day. That will be interesting but the main thing about this is the awareness raising about poverty in developing countries and to get people thinking and talking about it.

[womanofdulwich]

Maybe you can swap some skills for food? I wonder if that is reflected in those stats?

[HAL9000]

As it happens, I've been following the recent onion crisis in India, which I think provides some perspective for this thread: India bans onion exports after eye-watering price rise

[zeban]

You definitely have to buy in bulk, and although seemingly healthy it's hard to get a balanced and varied diet on such little money. I've lived on about ?1-2 per day. It gets very very tedious and depressing although I'm not the most amazing cook so you could probably do alot more if you were. Mind you all of the little ingredients you need for cooking- herbs etc add up to alot and if you don't have them initially then you have to slowly build them up. And you have to be careful not to bulk buy too much otherwise things go off.

I didn't do it as an experiment it was because I had a job that paid me extremely little! I wouldn't do it as an experiment unless it was for a week or something. I actually think it would be quite patronising to do it to see how the other people live. The only thing it will help is your wallet. Instead just make more thoughtful decisions about the food you buy- where it's from, whether it's fair trade etc and don't waste food.

I love food, healthy food, and if I had to have a budget for all expenditure I'd prioritise food and forget clothes, going out, drinking etc. Others might be able to cope better than me.

[*Bob*]

I remember one particular school assembly, where the member of staff 'on' for that week - (committed caring Christian type, beard, round spectacles) carried out a series of mild stunts aimed at 'making you think about the third world'.

The clothes were washed using only half a cup of water. The daily allowance of grain was measured. Empathy, understanding. Makes you think etc. What was that.. ? Twenty years ago?

I wonder if, in the fullness of time, the West's role in developing the developing world will be mostly seem in terms of empathy, sympathy.. and handing-out sacks of grain, whilst China was in there actually building things and making things happen.

[HAL9000]

nashoi Wrote:

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> Let me guess HAL9000, your real name wouldn't be

> Baldrick, by any chance?

How did you guess? I thought I had a cunning plan - avoid mentioning the turnips!

[zeban]

Absolutely Bob. I think there's a whole argument to be had about the usefulness of International Aid in this day and age.

[Alec John Moore]

Hi Zeban, I don't see how attempting to understand the struggles that poor people in developing countries experience just trying to get by is patronising. I have also lived on very little money and I understand something of the challenge. However, that was 25 years ago and I now live a fairly affluent life. In some ways I'm looking forward to the challenge because I'm not sure what I will learn from the experience. That's all part of it.

[zeban]

Ok, knock yourself out. I still think it's a little more complicated than that. Why not look at developing countries and ask yourself why the people there are still starving to death? look at some of the governments in these countries.

I find it less patronising if you were doing it in recognition that in developed countries people can't afford to feed themselves- look at the US, the richest nation in the world yet it has some serious extremes of poverty. Even here. 25 years later and you're doing ok now which is great but some aren't as lucky as you. 25 years laster and some people are not affluent. Why not look into that?

Also, what if you were paid by the day? You couldn't afford a box of eggs no matter how little 1 egg adds up to. Try buying things everyday for that day for 1 week then let me know how it goes.

[DJKillaQueen]

That is a very good point. Many of those working in poverty are paid by the day and whether they eat or not on any given day depends on whether they can get work. The saddest cases are orphaned or abandoned children, living on the streets, either begging or scavenging on other people's rubbish.

[PeckhamRose]

I saw the other day how Dubai's tall buildings were built by Indian slave labour who had been tricked in to coming on the promise of something more. Remind me if I get rich not to be tempted by Dubai's sort of luxury!

[Alec John Moore]

Hi Zeban, I'm still not clear where you're coming from on this. I think the Live below the line campaign is fairly straightforward and isn't claiming to transform the world into a totally socially just society. I still don't see how it is patronising to try to understand how other people live. I am aware that poverty and development are complicated but I don't see how that negates an attempt to raise awareness of poverty. Do you have an alternative to suggest? Alec

[katie1997]

HAL9000 Wrote:

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> As it happens, I've been following the recent

> onion crisis in India, which I think provides some

> perspective for this thread: India bans onion

> exports after eye-watering price rise

Absolutely right Hal - the price of onions is a massively contentious subject in India and has been for a long time. Riots and all.

I can never forget the advice I got from my manager when I first moved there, 'never underestimate the value of 1 rupee in India'. He was absolutely correct.

Of course you can eat cheaply and its not really comparable to a pound over here but I think Alec has helped make us think about the issue. Raising awareness is no bad thing.

I'm also reminded of a friend in India explaining to me why there were so many products for sale in such tiny quantities (eg washing powder, tiny bottles of shampoo, baby oil, cotton buds etc). Its apparently very common in economies with very poor people. My friend worked in the micro-finance and charity sector and had a far greater understanding than I of the daily issues people face.

[Annette Curtain]

zeban Wrote:

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> Absolutely Bob. I think there's a whole argument

> to be had about the usefulness of International

> Aid in this day and age.

IF international Aid really worked, many people would be out of a job wouldn't they ?

The whole Aid culture is a business all of it's own. And GOD ( sic ) don't get started on the whole Christian element of it.

Nette.(td)

[Alec John Moore]

I know one or two people who work for Oxfam and the line there is that Oxfam's work will be done when the countries they work in are "developed". I believe it's more about solidarity with people in other countries and a commitment to social justice, globally. That's why I think there will always be a role for international NGOs in the UK to facilitate that communication and raise awareness. That's also why I am interested in Live below the line.

[zeban]

Sorry Alec, I didn't mean to crap all over the campaign, it sounds great for a teenager to give them an understanding of the true worth of things, to put their lives into context and build empathy for one another. But you're an adult who is probaby aware of the struggles of life and given that you said you once were pretty poor I'd think you didn't need to know how it felt as you would already remember?

Are you trying to cultivate your own empathy? Sometimes I wonder whether empathy is something that is simply innate in some and not in others.. but that's another subject and I'm not suggesting you are in the latter category! Anyway, I love this blog about empathy, I don't know if it would be of any interest to you http://outrospection.org/