Brexit View

[Seabag]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> Foster blames Dublin for stopping them from seeing

> the text of the agreement. wtf.

TBH it's not really Dublin's fault is it, maybe the 'government' (and I use the term lightly) should have cc'd them DUP people in.

[Loz]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Maybe we're all looking at this the wrong way.

>

> With all the demands from competing interests to stay in the single market, customs union,

> passporting rights, ECJ still calling the shots on Citizens rights etc and even sentient animals

> wagging their tails why don't we just say to the EU you pay us ?10 Billion a year and we'll carry

> on as normal.

Brilliant idea - we could put "Don't leave the EU and send ?192m a week to the NHS instead" on the side of a bus. That'll finish Brexit.

After all, it doesn't actually have to be true...

[pato]

Seabag Wrote:

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> We're back to the UK negotiating with itself

> 'again' here.

>

> I love Europe btw, but I love Keano's idea best

> (like right now)

..I think if you insist a little more EU will give you that 10billion per year. Not even to stay or leave Europe. They ll give it to You just to get lost. Such a waste of time and money...

It s sad really.

Perhaps the most scathing verdict was that of the Deutschlandfunk commentator Peter Kapern, who described Brexit as ?the biggest political nonsense? since the Roman emperor Caligula made his favourite horse a senator. ?Anyone who needed further proof of this thesis has received it today,? he wrote.

[keano77]

pato Wrote:

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Perhaps the most scathing verdict was that of the Deutschlandfunk commentator Peter Kapern, who described Brexit as ?the biggest political nonsense? since the Roman emperor Caligula made his favourite horse a senator. ?Anyone who needed further proof of this thesis has received it today,? he wrote.

Given that Germany, Europe's most powerful country and the driving force behind the EU project cannot even form a government at the moment Peter Kapern may be tired and emotional and drowning his sorrows in bierkellers.

When he sobers up he might realise Caligula, although mad, was ahead of his time in granting rights to sentient animals. In fact, his equine senator might have made a better job of the Brexit negotiations than the current parties.

[JoeLeg]

To be fair Keane, even you have to admit this is becoming a big of a mess now. I'm not quite sure how the Leave campaign found itself this unprepared but it's starting to look like they never really expected any adversity in the process.

I'm genuinely confused as to how no one thought the Irish border would be a problem, I can't for the life of me work out what the DUP thinks is an acceptable outcome.

[keano77]

Yes JoeLeg, I see your point and it does look a big mess at the moment. However, we are not being given the full picture and we don't know what discussions are really going on behind closed doors.

I'm not sure the Northern Ireland border question is really such the big deal that it's being made out to be. It's a distraction and there's a whiff that the Republic of Ireland is being used by the EU as part of a bigger game.

One thing you have to admire about the EU is it's ability over the years to fudge matters with impenetrable ambiguous jargon that allows wriggle room. So a solution will be found.

The real problem is what it has always been - the EU cannot agree a deal whereby Britain would be seen to be better off outside the bloc than within it without risking the collapse of the whole edifice. This has nothing to do with punishing Britain, rather it's self-preservation.

[JohnL]

David Davis in front of the EU Exit committee again. Were there impact documents on the automotive industry, no were there impact documents on the financial services industry, no . Davis apparently doesn't believe in models.

But there were 58 sectors of analysis in excruciating detail and the PM saw the summaries. Hillary Benn looks confused and angry. Davis is getting closer to a charge of misleading parliament.

[JohnL]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-42226690

"David Davis tells MPs no assessment of the overall impact of Brexit on the UK has been carried out."

and that's it.

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Yes JoeLeg, I see your point and it does look a

> big mess at the moment. However, we are not being

> given the full picture and we don't know what

> discussions are really going on behind closed

> doors.

This is of course very true, and par for the course. I do however wish the DUP weren't involved, they seem to me to be like small kids that have been allowed to sit at the adult table and are now messing everything up.

>

> I'm not sure the Northern Ireland border question

> is really such the big deal that it's being made

> out to be. It's a distraction and there's a whiff

> that the Republic of Ireland is being used by the

> EU as part of a bigger game.

Well, maybe, but if it's true that there has to be a 'hard' border between EU/non-EU land (and seeing as how immigration was such a driving force behind many Leave votes I cannot see how hard borders cannot be enforced), how can that be reconciled with the demands of the DUP that no hard border exist between the North and the Republic, or between the North and the UK mainland?

Surely a 'hard' border will need to exist somewhere, but is this not Nimbyism taken past the point of practicality?

>

> One thing you have to admire about the EU is it's

> ability over the years to fudge matters with

> impenetrable ambiguous jargon that allows wriggle

> room. So a solution will be found.

I share your essential viewpoint, but it seems that we are all being held hostage by the DUP here.

>

> The real problem is what it has always been - the

> EU cannot agree a deal whereby Britain would be

> seen to be better off outside the bloc than within

> it without risking the collapse of the whole

> edifice. This has nothing to do with punishing

> Britain, rather it's self-preservation.

Well..yes. Yes indeed. We've opened up quite the can of worms here, and I don't think we were ready for it.

[JohnL]

So no assessment of the impact of Brexit on the economy and no preparation of the impact of the DUP agreement on phase one of the negotiations - one third of which concern the island of Ireland.

There's a theme here - no wonder Theresa May didn't want a running commentary.

[JohnL]

"Labour's Hilary Benn asks whether the government undertook an assessment of leaving the customs union, before the decision was taken.

"Not a formal quantitative one," replies David Davis.

"Isn't that quite extraordinary?" probes Mr Benn.

David Davis replies that there are a "phenomenal numbers of variables".

And with that, David Davis departs."

and with a flutter of his cape and a puff of smoke, he was gone.

[Earl Aelfheah]

David Davis has repeatedly lied to Parliament and the public. He has demonstrated gross incompetence and mendacity and should be sacked.

[JohnL]

For a woman in such a hole Theresa May didn't do to badly in PMQs. She's trying to say she'll sort it all out in phase II.

Two Brexit hardliners including Rees-Mogg ('are her red lines going pink') had a go though (that's the danger she faces).

[Blah Blah]

She didn't do badly at PMQs because Corbyn prefers to give speeches instead of askng actual questions these days.

[Earl Aelfheah]

There is absolutely no way that she can satisfy the brextremists in her own party. It's a no deal, or a leadership challenge. But probably not before months of damaging incompetence and infighting.

Personally, I would like to see Boris in charge - simply on the grounds of 'you break it, you buy it'.

[Seabag]

Boris in charge?

HolyFuckoli NO...anyone but him, infact I take that back. They're all shockingly bad.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Don't get me wrong, I despise Boris - but at the moment he gets to sit back and criticise the way Brexit is being handled ('it would have been great, but for those who did not really believed in it' etc.)and remains the darling of the right. He should be held accountable for the inevitable car crash and then removed in disgrace. Instead hes going to take 'credit' for bringing about brexit, avoid responsibility when it all goes wrong and almost certainly end up in power anyway at the end of it all.

[Earl Aelfheah]

...lets put him in the driving seat before the inevitable car crash.

[Blah Blah]

He was all over the place today in his press conference over trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Isreal.

[Seabag]

2nd referendum is on the cards

[JohnL]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> David Davis has repeatedly lied to Parliament and

> the public. He has demonstrated gross incompetence

> and mendacity and should be sacked.

He's been let of by the committee as they voted along party lines (technically he gave up all the documentation he had apparently).

He still could be pulled up by the speaker

[Burbage]

Seabag Wrote:

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> 2nd referendum is on the cards

I'm not so sure. It would be a nice gesture, but it wouldn't:

(a) change the government's non-existent strategy to reach an unimagined destination,

(b) change the terms of Article 50,

© provide Labour with any more clue than it already hasn't.

At best, it would waste three months getting a result that wouldn't make any difference.

For what would a referendum be on? Accepting a deal that doesn't exist? Or rejecting it and guaranteeing 'no deal'? Both end us back very much where we started, but with a lot less time on the clock.

Even if there was a 'no Brexit' option (which neither Labour nor Tories would back), there's no guarantee we'd be able to do it. We could ask if the rest of the EU were minded to allow it, and even get a ruling from the ECJ. But who would do that if not government or opposition? And, besides, it would only take one tiny, disgruntled country (other than ourselves) to knock it back, so it can't be guaranteed.

What we need is for government to get a plan together for what they want; a plan that includes a fallback of revoking Article 50 if agreement isn't reached.

We're not going to get that, even with a referendum. Partly because of first-past-the-post, partly on account of transnational interference, partly for reasons of political greed and partly because we live on a resourceless, unproductive little insularity, a-swarm with the viciously stupid. So the best thing kind-minded people could do for the future of our continent might well be to start sending rude postcards to Kim Jong Un, signing them 'Theresa May'. Assuming Boris hasn't done that already.

Or perhaps we should settle our differences, stand united behind our mayor's message and tell the good folk beyond the M25 it's time they were building a wall.

[Alan Medic]

Tusk to make a Brexit announcement tomorrow at 6.50am. This is unexpected. Something is afoot.I wonder what?

[JoeLeg]

What Burbage said. Plus, though it frankly disgusts me to admit this about my country, to backtrack that hard on A50 would be to open the floodgates to UKIP, Britain First and worse.

[Blah Blah]

The deadline for progress on NI is end of Sunday, so the a.m. announcement may be significant, athough I can not see how May can have satisfied the DUP and her own backbench brexiteers and the EU.

UKIP are finished whatever happens in my opinion. And I think the Tory Party will never be the same either.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-border-deal-theresa-may-dup-eu-arlene-foster-deadline-summit-european-a8097726.html