Brexit View

[JohnL]

EDOldie Wrote:

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> SpringTime Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you're a remainer (I'm not but most of you

> on

> > the EDF are of course) then I'd say this is a

> very

> > good thing. Feels like where we finally need to

> be

> > after a crazily simplistic vote. Yes or no,

> > imagine the arrogance of that stupid man

> Cameron,

> > who thought he had it in the bag so much as to

> > guarantee himself a win on a referendum that

> would

> > put the issue to bed forever. He didn't half

> read

> > the people wrong....

> >

> > EDOdlie says both the main parties appear to

> have

> > very similar views on Brexit, but I don't think

> > this is right. And I don't think that there's

> > internal consistency on both sides either* So

> if

> > the Commons are to influence the final

> > negotiations (which sound very complicated!)

> > surely this is a chance for democracy to prove

> > itself?

> >

> > *Please say how this might be "remedied"

>

> Cameron had no choice but to call a referendum.

> His whole election campaign was based on that

> promise and he had no choice but to resign when it

> didn't go his way.

>

> The Labour Party & the Conservative party want us

> to leave it seems to me, neither has said that

> they wouldn't. It also sems to me that if we don't

> leave the single market and the customs union we

> are not really leavimg. The only parties that have

> actively campaigned to remain are the Greens and

> the Lib Dems. So it seems entirely logical that if

> you want to stay in the EU you should vote either

> Green or Lib Dem. Am I missing something?

I'm voting Labour tactically on the premise of causing as many bloody noses to Theresa as possible.

The Lords has now put a mechanism to remain in place if that amendment ends up being accepted - which if it does will be accused by leavers of being the plan all along :)

(Vote against whatever Theresa May brings back then have a parliamentary debate on what to do next with all options open and a free vote).

[poch]

Confused as to what to do but think am switching from Lab to Lib Dems. Brexit. Too many insipid Labour frontbenchers. Too many open goals missed at PMQs by JC. A high enough percentage swing to the Lib Dems / Greens won't go unnoticed even if Labour ends up holding onto the majority of the local seats...

[Loz]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> The Express is so desperate for readership that it will print practically anything.

The Express is a truly awful newspaper where everyone is FUMING and in SHOCK about a BACKLASH to some HORROR.

It makes the Mail look intelligent and the Guardian look like it has a sense of humour.

[Beryl20]

Local elections have always been ?the? traditional time to concentrate main parties' minds. And, as Brexit is the only game in town, this local election will be watched more closely than any other I can remember and, as I'm a dead-centre remain voter, I'll most certainly not care to give succour to either ideology-constipated extremist Front Bench.

Brexit is very much a local issue anyway: government's own economic analyses show Brexit will harm every part of the land = this will inevitably translate into shortfalls in local funding.

[hammerman]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The Express (and Daily Star) got taken over by

> > Trinity Mirror (the new company is called

> > "Reach"). The editors of both Express and Star

> > resigned the day after the takeover and got

> > replaced by Mirror staffers but the editorial

> > leanings of the Express were staying the same.

> >

> > The Express now just seems to be trying to wind

> > Leavers up IMHO

> >

>

> The Express is so desperate for readership that it

> will print practically anything. Stringent Leavers

> who don?t have the ability to think for themselves

> are it?s principle market now.

>

> I know several Leavers who all admit they are

> embarrassed every time the Express runs one of

> it's lunatic headlines. While they steadfastly

> defend their position in an argument, they all

> feel the Express does way more harm than good for

> their cause.

Stringent Leavers who don't have the ability to think for themselves?

I don't read the Express but you are insulting 17 million people.

[JoeLeg]

Don?t be a twat. No I?m not.

I?m insulting the Leave voters who can?t think for themselves and lap up the rubbish that comes out of the Express. Just them. No one else.

?Insulting 17 million people?...FFS...Did you actually READ my post? Plainly not.

[JohnL]

Jacob Rees Mogg really should lay off now - the government has said tax havens will be more transparent so your plan failed. Does he realise the damage a "no deal" will bring.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-tax-havens-dirty-money-corruption-theresa-may-bvi-cayman-islands-a8331311.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/01/uk-to-introduce-public-ownership-registers-for-overseas-territories

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/09/brexiters-put-money-offshore-tax-haven

[JohnL]

Beryl20 Wrote:

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> Local elections have always been ?the? traditional

> time to concentrate main parties' minds. And, as

> Brexit is the only game in town, this local

> election will be watched more closely than any

> other I can remember and, as I'm a dead-centre

> remain voter, I'll most certainly not care to give

> succour to either ideology-constipated extremist

> Front Bench.

> Brexit is very much a local issue anyway:

> government's own economic analyses show Brexit

> will harm every part of the land = this will

> inevitably translate into shortfalls in local

> funding.

I'll still be voting Labour as I want to give Theresa May another bloody nose. (But I think Tories will hold Wandsworth now - which they will count as a success)

[JohnL]

So both options being debated by the 'war cabinet' today have already been dismissed by the EU, or as said in PMQs

"Labour?s Karen Buck asks why the government is still considering two EU customs options that are seen as unworkable.

May says if Buck is so interested in this, she should asks the Labour front bench to decide its own policy on it."

[Beryl20]

In these topsy-turvy times every vote for Labour - far from giving May a bloody nose - will be claimed by May's government as a vote of support for its policies; its Brexit policies, to wit. This already happened last year after that 2017 general election, with the hard-right MPs crowing about Labour voters' support all over the media so I'm neither guessing nor speculating what Friday's right-wing headlines will be - should Labour vote do well tomorrow.

...Seeing as to date Jeremy Corbyn either imposed a 3-line whip on his MPs to vote with the Conservatives on anything Brexit, or ordered them to abstain, not a hard claim to spin.

[JohnL]

At the moment her and her cabinet are arguing like ferrets in a bag about two options the EU won't let happen.

Sometimes I can't believe she's really serious about Brexit Tick Tock.

@peston

"I hear, as expected, the decisive Brexit war sub-committee has deferred a decision on what customs proposal to put to Brussels. Quelle surprise!"

But there's a new issue to deal with - Bercow keeps losing his temper

@paulwaugh

"Signif development. No10 just outlined 3 ways Parliament could 'properly investigate' Bercow bullying allegations:

1 indep inquiry cd expand terms of reference;

2 "House authorities" cd investigate; 3 Parliamentary Cssnr cd investigate.

Looking bad for Bercow."

[hammerman]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> Don?t be a twat. No I?m not.

>

> I?m insulting the Leave voters who can?t think for

> themselves and lap up the rubbish that comes out

> of the Express. Just them. No one else.

>

> ?Insulting 17 million people?...FFS...Did you

> actually READ my post? Plainly not.

Yes I did READ your post and thanks for calling me a twat and FFS etc.

[poch]

Beryl20 Wrote:

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> In these topsy-turvy times every vote for Labour -

> far from giving May a bloody nose - will be

> claimed by May's government as a vote of support

> for its policies; its Brexit policies, to wit.

> This already happened last year after that 2017

> general election, with the hard-right MPs crowing

> about Labour voters' support all over the media so

> I'm neither guessing nor speculating what Friday's

> right-wing headlines will be - should Labour vote

> do well tomorrow.

> ...Seeing as to date Jeremy Corbyn either imposed

> a 3-line whip on his MPs to vote with the

> Conservatives on anything Brexit, or ordered them

> to abstain, not a hard claim to spin.

Beryl's right. A couple of mornings ago Liam Fox was justifying a hard Brexit because of the combined percentage who'd voted Labour / Tory in the General Election ie. a high percentage of voters voted for 'pro-Brexit parties'. It's often an argument (full of holes but John Humphries didn't bother to expose them) that's wheeled out.

Jeremy Corbyn has consistently failed to hold the government to account re. the mess we're in (rarely brings Brexit up at PMQs - simply doesn't feel it).

UKIP are a very good example of a party who have heavily influenced policy without converting support into a) parliamentary seats or b) large numbers of council seats. A local election is a brilliant opportunity for expressing discontent with the two main political parties, and for expressing proper dissatisfaction about Brexit.

[JoeLeg]

hammerman Wrote:

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> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Don?t be a twat. No I?m not.

> >

> > I?m insulting the Leave voters who can?t think

> for

> > themselves and lap up the rubbish that comes

> out

> > of the Express. Just them. No one else.

> >

> > ?Insulting 17 million people?...FFS...Did you

> > actually READ my post? Plainly not.

>

> Yes I did READ your post and thanks for calling me

> a twat and FFS etc.

Well no you obviously didn?t read it, at least not properly. I?m not going to stand for being told I insulted all Leave voters when that's explicitly not what I said.

And you?re welcome!

[Beryl20]

...I couldn't have put it better myself, Poch.

[flocker spotter]

can someone gravely insult the remain bloc please ? just to get some balance here.

[JohnL]

flocker spotter Wrote:

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> can someone gravely insult the remain bloc please

> ? just to get some balance here.

I'm one so I'll do it

Thatcher once called her cabinet "a bunch of Moaning Minnies"

We now have a bunch of Remoaning Minnies LOL

[JohnL]

@GuyVerhofstadt

"Today, Nigel Farage said Belgium is not a real country. He'll see how real Belgium is when we play England in the World Cup"

LOL

[flocker spotter]

it was real enough for us to fight over and to allow quarter of a million Belgian refugees to come and live here.

[hammerman]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> hammerman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JoeLeg Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Don?t be a twat. No I?m not.

> > >

> > > I?m insulting the Leave voters who can?t

> think

> > for

> > > themselves and lap up the rubbish that comes

> > out

> > > of the Express. Just them. No one else.

> > >

> > > ?Insulting 17 million people?...FFS...Did you

> > > actually READ my post? Plainly not.

> >

> > Yes I did READ your post and thanks for calling

> me

> > a twat and FFS etc.

>

>

> Well no you obviously didn?t read it, at least not

> properly. I?m not going to stand for being told I

> insulted all Leave voters when that's explicitly

> not what I said.

>

> And you?re welcome!

Thanks joeleg - I'm a strong woman and can take it!

[JohnL]

Got to say (although I usually side with Labour) - not inspired enough to vote yesterday - no politician has done enough on Brexit - we as a country are going nowhere and the media is just concerned with petty politics.

You have to get me to vote - it's not an obligation on me.

[rendelharris]

JohnL Wrote:

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> @GuyVerhofstadt

> "Today, Nigel Farage said Belgium is not a real

> country. He'll see how real Belgium is when we

> play England in the World Cup"

>

> LOL

Damn, I lived there for several years, if we'd known it wasn't a real country we wouldn't have paid our taxes!

[cella]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Got to say (although I usually side with Labour) -

> not inspired enough to vote yesterday - no

> politician has done enough on Brexit - we as a

> country are going nowhere and the media is just

> concerned with petty politics.

>

> You have to get me to vote - it's not an

> obligation on me

Got to say very surprised by your decision. A missed opportunity to exercise a hard won democratic right and you won't have had a rightful say in what happens next in the LP. Disappointing.

[flocker spotter]

lolz. really ?

[malumbu]

Totally uninspired in Lewisham, but did exercise my hard fought democratic right and also tried to get involved in some debate (and if I don't like it I should stand myself, that's democracy for you folks). No Brexit backlash against Labour in my manor - discuss.