Brexit View

[Loz]

I think what we have learnt from the council elections is that Leavers are very focussed on voting to get the Brexit they want and us Remainers are all over the shop.

[JohnL]

cella Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Got to say (although I usually side with Labour)

> -

> > not inspired enough to vote yesterday - no

> > politician has done enough on Brexit - we as a

> > country are going nowhere and the media is just

> > concerned with petty politics.

> >

> > You have to get me to vote - it's not an

> > obligation on me

> Got to say very surprised by your decision. A

> missed opportunity to exercise a hard won

> democratic right and you won't have had a rightful

> say in what happens next in the LP. Disappointing.

I absolutely detested the way my last vote for Labour was used by Theresa May as an endorsement of Brexit - disgusting.

[flocker spotter]

bread and circuses

[cella]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> cella Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JohnL Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Got to say (although I usually side with

> Labour)

> > -

> > > not inspired enough to vote yesterday - no

> > > politician has done enough on Brexit - we as

> a

> > > country are going nowhere and the media is

> just

> > > concerned with petty politics.

> > >

> > > You have to get me to vote - it's not an

> > > obligation on me

> > Got to say very surprised by your decision. A

> > missed opportunity to exercise a hard won

> > democratic right and you won't have had a

> rightful

> > say in what happens next in the LP.

> Disappointing.

>

> I absolutely detested the way my last vote for

> Labour was used by Theresa May as an endorsement

> of Brexit - disgusting.

Agree totally on tgat

[Cardelia]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I absolutely detested the way my last vote for

> Labour was used by Theresa May as an endorsement

> of Brexit - disgusting.

Well, what do you expect when you vote for a party that backs Brexit?

I understand that not everyone who voted for Labour wanted to leave the EU. But if you felt that strongly about Brexit, why did you vote for a party which was committed to leaving the EU?

[robbin]

Fair point!

[Loz]

Cardelia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > I absolutely detested the way my last vote for

> > Labour was used by Theresa May as an endorsement

> > of Brexit - disgusting.

>

> Well, what do you expect when you vote for a party

> that backs Brexit?

>

> I understand that not everyone who voted for

> Labour wanted to leave the EU. But if you felt

> that strongly about Brexit, why did you vote for a

> party which was committed to leaving the EU?

Exactly. As per the point I made earlier, the Brexiters are making their vote count. Leavers are still voting all over the shop - and some of them are voting Labour, which is, essentially, a vote for Brexit. Especially as their leader is a committed Brexiter and always has been.

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cardelia Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JohnL Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > > I absolutely detested the way my last vote

> for

> > > Labour was used by Theresa May as an

> endorsement

> > > of Brexit - disgusting.

> >

> > Well, what do you expect when you vote for a

> party

> > that backs Brexit?

> >

> > I understand that not everyone who voted for

> > Labour wanted to leave the EU. But if you felt

> > that strongly about Brexit, why did you vote for

> a

> > party which was committed to leaving the EU?

>

> Exactly. As per the point I made earlier, the

> Brexiters are making their vote count. Leavers

> are still voting all over the shop - and some of

> them are voting Labour, which is, essentially, a

> vote for Brexit. Especially as their leader is a

> committed Brexiter and always has been.

Well my original plan was cause chaos, get rid of May and avert catastrophe by the skin of our teeth as public opinion changed.

There's a vote on the single market in the Lords today - with the Labour front bench abstaining. Might still pass - but I don't want us to be in the single market and customs union - I want us to be back in and leading the EU.

[robbin]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Cardelia Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > JohnL Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > > I absolutely detested the way my last vote

> > for

> > > > Labour was used by Theresa May as an

> > endorsement

> > > > of Brexit - disgusting.

> > >

> > > Well, what do you expect when you vote for a

> > party

> > > that backs Brexit?

> > >

> > > I understand that not everyone who voted for

> > > Labour wanted to leave the EU. But if you

> felt

> > > that strongly about Brexit, why did you vote

> for

> > a

> > > party which was committed to leaving the EU?

> >

> > Exactly. As per the point I made earlier, the

> > Brexiters are making their vote count. Leavers

> > are still voting all over the shop - and some

> of

> > them are voting Labour, which is, essentially,

> a

> > vote for Brexit. Especially as their leader is

> a

> > committed Brexiter and always has been.

>

> Well my original plan was cause chaos, get rid of

> May and avert catastrophe by the skin of our teeth

> as public opinion changed.

>

> There's a vote on the single market in the Lords

> today - with the Labour front bench abstaining.

> Might still pass - but I don't want us to be in

> the single market and customs union - I want us to

> be back in and leading the EU.

That makes it sound like you are living in some sort of na?ve fantasy world. As if we were ever "leading the EU" to begin with!

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's a vote on the single market in the Lords

> today - with the Labour front bench abstaining.

> Might still pass - but I don't want us to be in

> the single market and customs union - I want us to

> be back in and leading the EU.

The Labour whip is trying to get all the Labour group to abstain, but some are rebelling. Thankfully. Which is exactly the problem with Corbyn. He wants Brexit... but doesn't want to be seen to be wanting Brexit.

As one of the Labour peers said, ?This is complete cowardice."

The problem with getting rid of May is that some hard-line Brexiter like Gove will pick up the reins. Her utter ineffectualness is possibly useful at this stage.

[flocker spotter]

No one in the tory party wants May to jump ship unless she can carry the baggage of brexit with her. she is a useful idiot until she is no longer required.

The raison d'etre behind brexit is not about change,it never was, it is about the continuity, consolidation and affirmation of what already exist.

[JoeLeg]

flocker spotter Wrote:

>

> The raison d'etre behind brexit is not about

> change,it never was, it is about the continuity,

> consolidation and affirmation of what already

> exist.

I've come to believe that this is probably the most accurate statement I've seen regarding Brexit.

[flocker spotter]

its all the fault of the oirish anyway

https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-undermined-british-government-100-years-itv-presenter-receives-backlash-controversial-comments-154405

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > There's a vote on the single market in the

> Lords

> > today - with the Labour front bench abstaining.

> > Might still pass - but I don't want us to be in

> > the single market and customs union - I want us

> to

> > be back in and leading the EU.

>

> The Labour whip is trying to get all the Labour

> group to abstain, but some are rebelling.

> Thankfully. Which is exactly the problem with

> Corbyn. He wants Brexit... but doesn't want to be

> seen to be wanting Brexit.

>

> As one of the Labour peers said, ?This is complete

> cowardice."

>

> The problem with getting rid of May is that some

> hard-line Brexiter like Gove will pick up the

> reins. Her utter ineffectualness is possibly

> useful at this stage.

Passed

That's a load of amendments to the bill now by the Lords.

It would take some work to revert them all in the Commons

[JohnL]

Oh - and she can't use the Parliament Act until the start of the next parliament, which would usually be a year but the government made this a 2 year parliament to bypass another Queens speech - so that's rebounded on them.

Each Lords amendment will have to be voted on in the Commons (or accepted) and then it'll go back to the lords again - Tick Tock.

[JohnL]

Maybe Owen Jones got in first on the Guardians PMQs feed :)

"PMQs - Snap verdict: Even supporters of the Conservative government would be hard pressed to argue that Theresa May is making a success of Brexit, and today Jeremy Corbyn hammered home the argument that she is mucking things up with admirable efficiency.

May seemed particularly uncomfortable and discombobulated by the experience, and her replies were more evasive than usual. She got in an irrelevant but telling jibe about Corbyn?s stance on TTIP, and a neat and half-fair soundbite about his stance on the customs union, but overall she was very much on the defensive and shorn of authority. For Corbyn, it was a clear win - and probably his best on the topic of Brexit (which is not always an easy one for him.)

Two factors seemed to help. Corbyn often starts with a good, pithy questions, but then gets bogged down in prolixity. Today all his questions were relatively short and precise (or, at least, they seemed so), and they were more effective as a result. And Corbyn also toned down some of the emotive, partisan rhetoric he tends to favour. Whether this was intentional or whether it was because the EU simply doesn?t stir his emotions much wasn?t clear. But the almost understated tone made his questions all the more compelling. When the facts on their own are so damning, stirring adjectives become superfluous."

[JohnL]

I listened to Mark Zuckerberg at the EU this morning. A really strange format where everybody asks questions then Zuckerberg answers some of them then ending up a bit chaotic - but in a way I liked it - somehow democratic.

Nigel Farage managed to jump in (note that he wouldn't get a say in a UK version as it would be the committee). He claims because of his political persuasion his footprint has fallen by 25% and he knows right wingers who have had there accounts cancelled. Zuckerberg said he never limits or cancels accounts based on political persuasion ever.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44210800

I guess as soon as Zuckeberg left the building he phoned Facebook to tell them to mark Farage's account down another notch :)

[diable rouge]

Officiel: Le Brexit est de la merde...:)

[Alan Medic]

May has two weeks to come up with a cunning plan

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-gives-theresa-may-two-weeks-to-solve-border-issue-1.3516829

The natives (well sort of) are getting restless

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/dup-dismisses-uk-government-s-half-cooked-ideas-on-border-1.3516835

[JohnL]

Two boys fighting in the road outside the Grapes in Borough on Saturday for no obvious reason. A European guy starts lecturing them "This wouldn't happen in any country but yours".

Obviously not true but sort of summed up what everybody else thinks of us.

[Alan Medic]

Aren't you Welsh?

[JohnL]

Yes, but the perception is a British thing I think as Swansea boys aren't angels.

[diable rouge]

Another rat deserting the good ship HMS Brexit...https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/06/paul-dacre-to-step-down-as-daily-mail-editor-in-november

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Another rat deserting the good ship HMS

> Brexit...https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ju

> n/06/paul-dacre-to-step-down-as-daily-mail-editor-

> in-november

And David Davis has threatened to resign today over the "backstop" being time limited - May wants it time limited but with no specific time (typical May)

[diable rouge]

It's not only EDF posters who should refrain from the Gin and late night postings...