Brexit View

[JoeLeg]

Keano mate,

Don?t go putting words in my mouth now, we both know you?re not that kind of guy.

My point is that if America gets its claws into our healthcare system we will come to regret it. May has stated the ?NHS is not for sale?, but she?s flip-flopped on so much that I?m not sure I believe her.

Of course we need to have a serious and very honest national conversation about the future of our healthcare, but that?s for us to do, and if we sell parts of it to one of the most avaricious pharma-businesses ever known then we lose everything. The examples you give are extreme indeed; before we even get to those issues (and we?ll have to) there?s the fact that modern medicine is far more expensive than many people realise, and there?s not enough trained professionals to do it at the moment, because it isn?t something anyone can just drop into. When my wife was recovering from an operation for something that was killing her, I had a surprisingly frank chat with a junior doctor who said he wished they were allowed to tell people how much everything cost, in the hope that they would start to understand how lucky we are. He also bemoaned the fact that otherwise intelligent and reasonable adults would turn up at hospital expecting some kind of magical, painless cure for things, and become upset when they were told that lifestyle, diet and attitude adjustments would be part of their recovery.

Too many people just don?t understand how complex and financially draining it is. And the staff are all terrified of making a mistake.

I believe very strongly that healthcare needs to be free at the point of delivery. No system - none - is perfect, and what worked in the 50?s in plainly not fit for purpose now. I?m on genial terms with the director of a major London hospital, and his wife is a senior nurse at another major London hospital; both of them absolutely agree that the debate needs to happen, but politicians are too concerned with saying the wrong thing so they issue general platitudes but refuse to be tied down on actual policy. It infuriates them both.

The NHS has saved my mums life twice, my wife?s life once, and safely delivered both our kids as well as helping me. And it cost nothing. When we are sick we should not, in the modern world - no one should - be having to worry about paying for it. There are some things that government needs to run for the benefit of all, and healthcare is one of them.

Yes, the NHS has a lot of problems. But they are our problems to deal with. If Brexit inadvertently results in compromising our ability to fix this, then it will have failed us.

[Alan Medic]

A couple of small points regarding the NHS.

Most of us pay National Insurance, so you can't say the NHS is free. We pay for it.

The budget to spend on homeopathy which was small,has been dropped entirely.

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

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> There is a reason why, unlike the Republic of

> Ireland, the British people were not given the

> chance to vote on gay marriage. The politicians

> knew it would not pass.

As I recall, prior to gay marriage being put on the statute book, polls consistently ran at about 65-70% in favour. The reason we weren't given a vote is that that's not how our system works, whereas Eire has a written constitution that can only be amended by referenda.

[JoeLeg]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> A couple of small points regarding the NHS.

>

> Most of us pay National Insurance, so you can't

> say the NHS is free. We pay for it.

>

Free *at the point of delivery* is the issue. Of course we have to pay for it, everything is to be paid for somehow.

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

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> There is a reason why, unlike the Republic of

> Ireland, the British people were not given the

> chance to vote on gay marriage. The politicians

> knew it would not pass.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/poll-gay-marriage

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/20/voters-back-same-sex-marriage/

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4984

[diable rouge]

Has keano been reading Brietbart and Infowars again?...:)

[flocker spotter]

I dont think he has been reading anything outside the Rothermere stable

[Seabag]

On point 2 on Keeno?s post

There are studies on jogging and joints

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.prima.co.uk/diet-and-health/exercise/news/amp42476/long-distance-running-good-for-knees-study/

But whatever, he?s entitled to his views.

[Seabag]

And like many of the Pro Brexit brigade he?s full of guff

If you can be bothered go and read his ?for sale? posts of old. They make Nicholas Parsons sound like a ?man of few words?.

[keano77]

Seabag Wrote:

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> And like many of the Pro Brexit brigade he?s full

> of guff

>

> If you can be bothered go and read his ?for sale?

> posts of old. They make Nicholas Parsons sound

> like a ?man of few words?.

Ah Seabag, what a pleasure.

Still bumming free breakfasts while travelling third class on Spanish trains?

[diable rouge]

If you think Corbyn has lost the plot, check out his brother, completely unhinged...

#toomanyhashtags

[JoeLeg]

...wow...

[Jenny1]

Useful guide to what to look out for in Commons votes this week.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/06/11/commons-showdown-the-two-clauses-to-watch-in-this-week-s-bre

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> If you think Corbyn has lost the plot, check out

> his brother, completely unhinged...

>

>

> 370692608

>

> #toomanyhashtags

LOL "Paul the Centrist Dad" top in the replies as always - he's not really centrist (but for some reason he still follows me after I said I hoped he enjoyed his holiday).

[Seabag]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And like many of the Pro Brexit brigade he?s

> full

> > of guff

> >

> > If you can be bothered go and read his ?for

> sale?

> > posts of old. They make Nicholas Parsons sound

> > like a ?man of few words?.

>

> Ah Seabag, what a pleasure.

>

> Still bumming free breakfasts while travelling

> third class on Spanish trains?

And that alone shows the generous spirit of the Spanish.

Mind you, had it been a French train, I?d have most likely starved 😳.

Is there 3rd class, really? Or is this one of those Boris and straight bananas type throw away comments.

Dunno!

[keano77]

More Boris I?m afraid Seabag, with a bit of fake news and Russian influence thrown in. I?m sure it was a lovely train and the desayuno was delicious

[Seabag]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> If you think Corbyn has lost the plot, check out

> his brother, completely unhinged...

>

>

> 370692608

>

> #toomanyhashtags

#Stop #I #actually #read #that #stuff

😳

[JohnL]

The headline in the Express today is very provocative again. "Ignore the will of the people at your peril". Being owned by Trinity Mirror (now Reach) I thought they might be more responsible.

*** Resignation Alert ***

Phillip Lee resigns as Justice Minister

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jun/12/brexit-no-10-rejects-last-minute-meaningful-vote-compromise-ahead-of-key-vote-politics-live

[diable rouge]

There was a campaign to get the Royal Mail to produce a set of 'commemorative' Brexit stamps. Instead we have a set of Dad's Army stamps. Excellent trolling Royal Mail...:)

[JohnL]

Oh I like those stamps - hope they're real :)

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> The headline in the Express today is very

> provocative again. "Ignore the will of the people

> at your peril". Being owned by Trinity Mirror

> (now Reach) I thought they might be more

> responsible.

The Sun's front page is a hotch potch of badly Photoshopped 'British icons'...

Windsor Castle...built by a Norman duke;

The Mini...designed by a Greek;

The Shard...designed by an Italian;

And not forgetting The Sun itself...owned by an Australian now an American resident.

The best one is the Loch Ness Monster...fictional, just like Brexit :)

[malumbu]

https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/brexit-creating-culture-of-extraordinary-secrecy-in-whitehall/?utm_source=UK+Wider+Civil+Service+31+March+2015&utm_campaign=e259fb59be-UKW_Brexit+Secrecy_EY_BCG&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e4b5027d47-e259fb59be-193462461

An interesting but hardly surprising report which concludes that the greatest challenge in delivering Brexit now stems from the inability of a split Cabinet to make critical decisions.

[flocker spotter]

I know its loltastic and shizzle, but underestimate the stubborn fury of out of London leave voters* at your peril - this isn't going to go away and many would like to see it enacted irrespective of cost and impact. London is the mega city one to their cursed earth - there is nothing they would like more than to teach it a lesson. things are arguably grimmer up north than they have been since the last century.

Whilst we fret about our avocado smash supplies and finding a new aupair, many, many decent people who have no faith in the gerrymandered political system any longer are up against it on a daily basis & our catcalls of ignorant racist and bigot are hardly likely to build any support in the short term.

the EDF can be a bit of a echo chamber sometimes.

* and I didn't use the gammon word either, as it pretty offensive apparently. rofl.

[JohnL]

That doesn't fit with the "Baby Boomer" theory though - although I know that's not the full story.

Many of the big Cities voted remain (Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham). Is it the same people as those on the Tommy Robinson march - if so I have not much in common.

[Jenny1]

flocker spotter Wrote:

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>

> Whilst we fret about our avocado smash supplies

> and finding a new aupair...

>

Not what I'm fretting about. I'm a disabled person on a small pension. Brexit will mean further erosion of the NHS and social care.