Brexit View

[flocker spotter]

I think there is some overlap, but the TR issue is overhyped.

[alex_b]

flocker spotter Wrote:

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> Whilst we fret about our avocado smash supplies

> and finding a new aupair, many, many decent people

> who have no faith in the gerrymandered political

> system any longer are up against it on a daily

> basis & our catcalls of ignorant racist and bigot

> are hardly likely to build any support in the

> short term.

I fret about where we'll replace 11% of the UK tax take when the financial services industry is decimated by Brexit. Or how we'll keep the integrated supply chains operating across The Channel for our aerospace or automotive sectors.

[JohnL]

The lords amendment that might get through today is the "meaningful vote"

Justine Greening with the rebels now on top of the minister that resigned this morning and Dominic Grieve has tabled a compromise amendment but the government through DD refusing to accept.

Soubry (the main rebel along with Clarke) says death threats have been made ""Ms Soubry says the current environment means one MP had to attend a public meeting accompanied by six armed police officers. "This has to stop," she says. "

[JoeLeg]

flocker spotter Wrote:

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> I know its loltastic and shizzle, but

> underestimate the stubborn fury of out of London

> leave voters* at your peril - this isn't going to

> go away and many would like to see it enacted

> irrespective of cost and impact. London is the

> mega city one to their cursed earth - there is

> nothing they would like more than to teach it a

> lesson. things are arguably grimmer up north than

> they have been since the last century.

>

> Whilst we fret about our avocado smash supplies

> and finding a new aupair, many, many decent people

> who have no faith in the gerrymandered political

> system any longer are up against it on a daily

> basis & our catcalls of ignorant racist and bigot

> are hardly likely to build any support in the

> short term.

>

> the EDF can be a bit of a echo chamber sometimes.

>

> * and I didn't use the gammon word either, as it

> pretty offensive apparently. rofl.

You?re right about all of that and I?ve been saying it for some time.

However...

Quite a few of those problems are NOTHING to do with the EU, but rather a political system designed to give the impression of control by the voting public while really being nothing of the kind. Yes, many many people have been screwed over, but Europe is not always the reason. Note I say ?not always?. I agree the EU has a lot of problems, but a lot of those who voted Leave are now often expecting some kind of utopian deliverance. When nothing really changes in their day-to-day lives, who will they blame?

An awful lot of what is wrong with us, we did to ourselves. Also, Leave voters need to recognise that there ARE those who voted that way because of bigoted reasons. Not many, I?m sure, but they shout the loudest in debates and drown out a lot of reasonable voices. Pretending there are no racist Leave voters is like pretending there are no Remainers who believe all Leavers are racist. Twats on both sides are still stifling sensible debate.

And yes, the EDF is an echo chamber at times. So are all those little towns outside London where they hate us and the EU.

We need to start talking more.

[Siduhe]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Oh I like those stamps - hope they're real :)

They appear to be: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44448061

[Jenny1]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> When nothing really changes in their

> day-to-day lives, who will they blame?

But their lives will change. They'll get worse. What will they do then?

[JohnL]

Looks like there's a deal - but it's one you know May will twist.

5A and 5B of the Grieve amendment and talks on 5C - to be introduced in the Lords (allows parliament to direct after a specific date). Why not just vote for the Grieve amendment rebels - you can't trust this government.

[JohnL]

Sarah Wollaston "the promised further amendment in the lords must closely reflect Dominic Grieve'a amendment (or the lords likely to bring that forward for themselves & for that to be passed)"

If this is a charade - That's twice the governments fooled them : Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice ..

[robbin]

Damn, I just spilt my coffee while trying to stifle a yawn...

[JohnL]

Sorry for waking you up

[Alan Medic]

Apparently there were 15+ Tory 'rebels'. Enough to have changed the result. Kicking the can down the road.

[diable rouge]

That'll be a can of the fudgiest fudge.

If rumours of May's concession are true, No Deal Brexit now dead in the water. I think we'll end up with an EEA deal, forever in limbo until we decode to rejoin...without the current benefits. Will be interesting to see how the Mogglodytes respond...

ETA: Just to clarify, I was referring to May using No Deal as an option/threat to the EU in negotiations. No Deal could still happen as it's the default option on Brexit Day should the EU and UK not arrive at any deal by then.

[diable rouge]

Getting tasty this evening, DExEU released a contentious statement about the concession, one of the rebels' response is ''If she f**ks us, she's f**ked''...:)

[Alan Medic]

Isn't No Deal a distinct possibility as there is no way of resolving the Irish border question without going back of their word or upsetting the DUP?

Mind you I'm still hoping the whole thing will collapse a bit like a game of Jenga.

[JohnL]

''If she f**ks us, she's f**ked''.

It's like something from a Quentin Tarantino film. Of course if she f**ks them she's f**ked. She's f**ked whatever.

The UK hasn't planned for a no deal so it would totally broadside us .. but I hope the Express and Sun sink first before the rest of us :(

[diable rouge]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> Isn't No Deal a distinct possibility as there is

> no way of resolving the Irish border question

> without going back of their word or upsetting the

> DUP?

Absolutely, but May using ''No Deal is better than a bad deal'' as a threat to the EU in negotiations would be a non-starter if the Tory rebels get their way, which I'm sure they will.

The EEA option supposedly solves the Irish border conundrum, hence why I think May will eventually have to backtrack on one of her red lines e.g. not staying in the Customs Union.

> Mind you I'm still hoping the whole thing will

> collapse a bit like a game of Jenga.

Personally, even a soft Brexit like the EEA option is still Brexit and bad for the economy and country as a whole, so I'd also prefer to see the whole thing come tumbling down. Ironically that could happen if No Deal was the only thing left on the table after negotiations. It would get vetoed by Parliament, and then a full-blown constitutional crisis develops. That could lead to the People's Vote idea, but would there be enough time, ditto another General Election? So there might only be time to revoke or ask for an extension to A50. And why would the EU extend it knowing that our only other option is to revoke it? Would they want to spend more time and money on further negotiations with such a shambolic/dysfunctional country?

Ditto, are there enough Brextremists to torpedo the EEA option or any other deal that doesn't meet with their ideology? Would the EEA or another option pass Labour's 6 tests? Unlikely as one of the tests is that a deal must have the ''exact same benefits''. I can't see any deal in the short time we have left would provide that.

The more you dig, the bigger the clusterfuck becomes...

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> ''If she f**ks us, she's f**ked''.

>

> It's like something from a Quentin Tarantino film.

> Of course if she f**ks them she's f**ked.

> She's f**ked whatever.

>

> The UK hasn't planned for a no deal so it would

> totally broadside us .. but I hope the Express and

> Sun sink first before the rest of us :(

In the interest of balance...:)

Senior Brexiter: ?If Theresa and Julian have sold us out here they are in real trouble. She reassured us all at the 1922. There is no way she can recover if she has now f**ked us over.?

[JohnL]

Guy, are you on a wind up.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-putin-cheerleader-eu-russia-guy-verhofstadt-erdogan-a8396476.html

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ''If she f**ks us, she's f**ked''.

> >

> > It's like something from a Quentin Tarantino

> film.

> > Of course if she f**ks them she's f**ked.

> > She's f**ked whatever.

> >

> > The UK hasn't planned for a no deal so it would

> > totally broadside us .. but I hope the Express

> and

> > Sun sink first before the rest of us :(

>

>

> In the interest of balance...:)

>

> Senior Brexiter: ?If Theresa and Julian have sold

> us out here they are in real trouble. She

> reassured us all at the 1922. There is no way she

> can recover if she has now f**ked us over.?

The thick of it :)

[JohnL]

The stars are aligned for conflict it seems.

"PMQs was plunged into chaos after SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford was kicked out for repeatedly challenging Speaker John Bercow.

MPs from the party walked out of the question session in protest, with many shouting as they left.

Blackford called for the Commons to sit in private when he was called to ask a question during the weekly PMQs session."

[diable rouge]

The Scots are revolting...:)

[Alan Medic]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> The Scots are revolting...:)

They're not that bad!

[JohnL]

Anna Soubry "Chuka and I are looking at what the future brings"

aww

[JohnL]

Theresa - There is no Brexit Dividend and if there was you spent it 4 times already including on a huge satellite array to do GPS

[Alan Medic]

Tomorrow will be interesting in the HOC after yesterday's HOL vote.

This was a pretty low tweet from Patel

@pritipatel4pm

17h

17 hours ago

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Dominic Grieve's mother was French and he was educated at the Lyc?e Fran?ais Charles de Gaulle school in South Kensington, a school wholly owned by the French Government.

He's a Frenchmen, with a British passport.

Don't let this Frenchman stop Brexit