Brexit View

[JohnL]

The BBC has treated Carole Cadwalladr quite badly IMHO - There really is more to come here.

(She's spent the last two years investigating Vote Leave/Leave.EU and if it wasn't for her the latest Electoral Commission investigation wouldn't have started - she's still pushing the Russian links but is treated like a maverick)

Edit: and reading today's posts - Nicholas Soames has heard enough "The whole damn thing needs to be blown up and started all over again" (does he mean Brexit .. or Parliament :) )

[Ruffler]

The Lib Dems could have brought the Conservatives to within one vote of defeat on yesterday?s Brexit bill, but Tim Farron and Vince Cable were absent. Unbelievable! https://news.sky.com/story/liberal-democrats-admit-party-messed-up-over-brexit-votes-11439419

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The BBC has treated Carole Cadwalladr quite badly

> IMHO - There really is more to come here.

>

> (She's spent the last two years investigating Vote

> Leave/Leave.EU and if it wasn't for her the latest

> Electoral Commission investigation wouldn't have

> started - she's still pushing the Russian links

> but is treated like a maverick)

It was Jolyon Maugham of the Good Law Project that went down the legal route to force the Commission to investigate, otherwise the Commission would've carried on ignoring Cadwalladr...

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The BBC has treated Carole Cadwalladr quite

> badly

> > IMHO - There really is more to come here.

> >

> > (She's spent the last two years investigating

> Vote

> > Leave/Leave.EU and if it wasn't for her the

> latest

> > Electoral Commission investigation wouldn't

> have

> > started - she's still pushing the Russian links

> > but is treated like a maverick)

>

> It was Jolyon Maugham of the Good Law Project that

> went down the legal route to force the Commission

> to investigate, otherwise the Commission would've

> carried on ignoring Cadwalladr...

Gosh - You'd think she was David Icke.

[Alan Medic]

Ruffler Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Lib Dems could have brought the Conservatives

> to within one vote of defeat on yesterday?s Brexit

> bill, but Tim Farron and Vince Cable were absent.

> Unbelievable!

> https://news.sky.com/story/liberal-democrats-admit

> -party-messed-up-over-brexit-votes-11439419

Plus Brandon Lewis makes 'an honest mistake'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44867866

And of course UKIP Hoey.

[JohnL]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ruffler Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The Lib Dems could have brought the

> Conservatives

> > to within one vote of defeat on yesterday?s

> Brexit

> > bill, but Tim Farron and Vince Cable were

> absent.

> > Unbelievable!

> >

> https://news.sky.com/story/liberal-democrats-admit

>

> > -party-messed-up-over-brexit-votes-11439419

>

> Plus Brandon Lewis makes 'an honest mistake'.

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44867866

>

> And of course UKIP Hoey.

That was about as honest a mistake as Trumps. Just breaking agreements and lying about it is OK now.

"Mr Lewis did not take part in most of the day's Trade Bill votes, but did take part in the two closest divisions - the one on customs and another on medicine regulation, which the government lost."

[JohnL]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/netherlands-customs-hard-brexit-uk-hire-staff-dutch-a8452386.html

Dutch Rapporteur (think it's an official): "I asked my government a year ago to start hiring new customs officials. They?ve hired almost a thousand customs officials just in case Britain crashes out."

"We also hired veterinary officials because if you crash out you also have that problem.?

"ports like Rotterdam and hub airports like Schipol are also planning significant physical changes to accommodate extra checks likely to slow down trade "

[JohnL]

Boris Johnson's resignation speech was a huge damp squid rather than a dead sheep.

'Johnson has finished. An MP shouts: ?Is that it??'

[malumbu]

I've got the perfect deal - Europe switches to driving on the left - which going back 2000 years was the way, and we stay in the customs union.

Then all cars will be British, we will have won and have something to brag about at the Euros in two years time.

Two World Wars, one world cup, and driving on the left, doo dah, doo dah

No surrender to left hand drives, no surrender......

[cella]

What are you talking about? I don't need an answer.

[Alan Medic]

The government will be one vote down come September. Do we get a refund of taxpayer's money used to buy the DUP's votes I wonder?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44886333

[Earl Aelfheah]

Everybody now...strong and stable, strong and stable.

[JohnL]

"Mr Barnier questioned whether the UK could be trusted to collect taxes on behalf of the EU."

I really understand his point.

[JohnL]

The Sun is trying to diffuse tension (NOT)

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-branded-eu-toady-and-air-head-by-british-sun-newspaper-37137434.html

[JohnL]

"You cannot have your cake and eat it. You can't take back your waters and then expect to use other people's sky," added the Taoiseach."

It's all going off then.

[diable rouge]

Good Leo, Bad Leo...

[malumbu]

I liked this thread when there was some decent discussion. It has been incredibly informative. Now just seems to be links to tweets and on-line articles ie other people's views. Fine to support arguments but better to know your take, which is often very well framed. No I don't need an answer cella.

[cella]

You are posting strangely. It was me that didn't need an answer.

[flocker spotter]

The political system in this country is unfit for purpose- what we see unfolding before us is like watching an autopsy- except this badly stitched corpse will jump up and walk around as soon as the time is right. And there will be less connection with the masses than before as they turn their backs on the whole flawed process out of disgust and apathy

This is exactly what is wanted, if not exactly planned that way, the reinforcemnt of the political class and the justification for their continued existance.We have this weeks farce of carpet bagging libdems vote absentees,whose only skill seems to be jumping ship to whatever cause they will think will secure their tenancy. We dont have the grand ecoles here in the UK - producing trained beaurocrats- we have public schools and PPE at oxford producing unskilled beaurocrats who are doing it, for want of better words, 'cos they have fuck all else to do and fancy a bash at poltics- got to be better than working or spending your time at drones with your feckless eton cohort isnt it?

we have more Eton and Ovbridge in the past few years cabinets that we did a hundred years ago. How is that progress?

brexit was a flawed idea, badly pitched and is not about europe at all , it is about the continuity of power - their power . wherther it goes well, middling or badly, the same parsites will be running the show at the end of it

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I liked this thread when there was some decent

> discussion. It has been incredibly informative.

> Now just seems to be links to tweets and on-line

> articles ie other people's views. Fine to support

> arguments but better to know your take, which is

> often very well framed. No I don't need an answer

> cella.

It's ticking over before it bursts into life. But on a personal note I see that Guy Verhofstadt has revived his comments to do something for those who are being stripped of EU citizenship without their consent. I hoped for some kind of Individual EU associate membership that might give me freedom of movement, but that's extremely unlikely.

I'd get an Irish passport if I could.

[malumbu]

Thank you for some informative posts ladies and gents. It can be difficult to read between the lines of my (and many other) posts which range from cheeky, mischievous, rude, but quite often helpful and supportive. There are some excellent perspectives on this thread on the mire that we are in/facing

Just to add a few views of my own, what really pees me off is the whole denigration of a sector of our population. Having a fairly modest upbringing it was great that I had an environment where I could be the first in the family to go to university. Dad assumed that I would leave school at 16 and go into a trade. Until a teacher (my word a Pakistani teacher as well) told my father that I had to stay on and do Maths A level. I digress slightly as my father was a product of his time, yet would happily take the advice of an educated immigrant.

Yet know people like me are sneered at by some of the popularists (is that a word?) as being the evil intellectual elite. A generation ago I would have been a role model, including working my summers as a mental health nurse or picking vegetables (jobs now seen as being beneath many of those who sneer at me).

Hope this comes over as honest and not pompous.

[poch]

We're now at a point where if you have an education somehow you feel ashamed.

[Alan Medic]

poch Wrote:

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> We're now at a point where if you have an

> education somehow you feel ashamed.

Says who?

[JoeLeg]

I don?t think people with an education feel ashamed, but a dangerous and false equivalence is being spread by the internet and populism;

?Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'?

Isaac Asimov

Micheal Gove has tried to pull back from his statement about experts, realising that he has damaged the credibility of people we rely on.

It?s one of the most insidious and vile effects of the referendum, the denigration of academia and learning. When people start to believe that those with knowledge are the enemy, and view them as ?not real people? - which has been happening - we have started to tread a dangerous and unfortunately well-worm path.

[poch]

I think what I mean is that one of the damaging by-products of the referendum, is a ? perhaps understandable ? feeling of guilt or shame from those now categorised as the ?elite? ie metropolitan, educated, professional types. Because Brexit is, in part, understood as a kick back by certain groups who are having an extremely hard time, I think there is a slight feeling of paralysis from those of us who voted Remain, who are probably having a comparatively easier time, and this guilt (I hear it when I talk to centre-left journalist friends who hate Brexit, but articulate some degree of impotence because after all they?re the lucky ones, and the people who voted to Leave aren?t, so what more is there to say?) But the weight of some of this emotion does mean that people who are preternaturally liberal in their instincts, who ordinarily might have carried on fighting against Brexit with a clear eye, have become resigned to something with which they profoundly disagree.