Brexit View

[JohnL]

Don't assume we're safe yet. The new Brexit Secretary who has just lost his position of Chief Negotiator to Theresa May and Olly Robbins demonstrates a real flair for making us feel safe and secure in the event of a no deal Brexit

'The new Brexit secretary has promised to ensure ?there is adequate food supply?'

Adequate ! Put that on the Brexit bus. - oh and it's the last day of parliament - nicely timed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-secretary-food-supply-dominic-raab-uk-leave-eu-no-deal-a8461771.html

[Jenny1]

This article sums up one of the new realisations I have about my country. I'd always wondered how our famous phlegmatic identity, which has been in evidence for all of my lifetime, and for decades prior to that, could be reconciled with the more extreme moments of our national history. And of course it was simply that that that 'level headed' pragmatism was just another phase - not permanent at all. I do, however, still think we could have maintained that mature, balanced approach if our politicians had understood that this was a hard-won, valuable quality that needed preserving, not an inherent part of our national DNA that could be relied on, no matter what.

https://www.ft.com/content/14cec2ea-8b45-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340

[JohnL]

The country seems to be split in 3 at the moment. Remain, Some kind of deal and WTO terms.

Although remain is what I stand with I have some sympathy with the WTO proponents as Theresa Mays deal is classic rule taker - I notice it doesn't have much support from either side. I think maybe I'd like to see a Norway model for a 5 year fixed period whilst we sort out our issues - but then we must move one way or the other.

Any no deal Brexit would require 10,000s of jobs to be created by the government IMHO on top of the recent increases to the NHS (and public pay rises which are coming out of current budgets supposedlly). Someone has to pay for that - I see motorists, drinkers and maybe VAT as well as maybe a penny or two on income pretty soon as we're talking preparation for no deal.

[JoeLeg]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> This article sums up one of the new realisations I

> have about my country. I'd always wondered how our

> famous phlegmatic identity, which has been in

> evidence for all of my lifetime, and for decades

> prior to that, could be reconciled with the more

> extreme moments of our national history. And of

> course it was simply that that that 'level headed'

> pragmatism was just another phase - not permanent

> at all. I do, however, still think we could have

> maintained that mature, balanced approach if our

> politicians had understood that this was a

> hard-won, valuable quality that needed preserving,

> not an inherent part of our national DNA that

> could be relied on, no matter what.

>

> https://www.ft.com/content/14cec2ea-8b45-11e8-b18d

> -0181731a0340

Paywall there I?m afraid.

Any chance of surmising the key points for us?

[Jenny1]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------

> Paywall there I?m afraid.

>

> Any chance of surmising the key points for us?

Apologies. It turned out to be one of those links which you can click and read once - but not access again, and I can't even remember the name of the author (though it was written by a European journalist writing as an 'outside observer'). I'll try and summarise it - but I will make it sound less interesting and original I'm sure!

The general point was that the UK, while having had a reputation in our own era as a level-headed, pragmatic country, hasn't always been thus. We've had crises and political upheavals in the past. We executed our King before the French thought of it. And once the recent relatively 'surface' quality of pragmatism and moderation was broken - as happened with the 2016 referendum and the political choices that followed it - it was always going to have dramatic consequences. This is because of the comparatively great economic inequalities in our society. We have the only truly global city in Europe and areas of great wealth - and yet also citizens who are as poor as the poorest in Spain and Portugal. We've gone - over the course of the latter half of the twentieth century, and into our current era - from being a leader in health and social service provision to a low wage, low tax (and low social investment) economy. So when the shattering of the balance came it was always going to be painful. (Of course one of the key ironies here was that we were already moving towards having a more American than European social model - and now seem set to accelerate that process).

I enjoy the study of history. One of my own sensations as the political landscape became clear in the wake of the 2016 referendum, was a sudden feeling of being further from the historical landmarks of the 20th Century. It was as if we'd been jolted into a new era that no longer referenced the Second World War (in which my father fought) or the Cold War (which defined my own childhood) in quite the same way. Even the First World War, The General Strike and other key aspects of our comparatively recent past, that I'd only ever read about or heard about from older friends and relatives, suddenly seemed to have less meaning, or to have receded more firmly into the past. I think this can partly be explained by the feeling that something which I thought was fundamental (that 'national' quality of phlegmatic pragmatism) had broken. It turned out not to be a defining British characteristic - merely an attribute of a particular phase of our history. That's one reason why I found resonance in this article.

[diable rouge]

While we're waiting for our MPs to get off their lardy arses and back to work, here's a little time filler...

 

[malumbu]

I hear that there is also a TV quiz based on Brexit negotiations, Deal or No Deal. Bit of a rubbish quiz though as there only seems to be one question, but a range of answers. I suppose that it why it only got 5/10 on IMDB and the presenter had to escape to SE Asia.

[malumbu]

Although in a British made and British owned car I hasten to add. Chinese must be quaking in their boots.

Oh, wait a second, they seemed to have brought the brand and shifted production to over there. We just have to leave the World, now. I demand a referendum.

[malumbu]

I've heard the army could be brought in. Well done, nothing better than a World War to boost national pride, spur on our industry, encourage self sufficiency, increase criminality and STDs (although we could shoot criminals and loose ladies under emergency powers). I expect that Trump is ready and waiting to help us out.

The chap I saw at Bromley South with the tattoos of Winston Churchill, a poppy and WW1 soldier has already signed up

[JohnL]

Dominic Raab was sweating so much as he made his speech today. Reminded me of Richard Nixon.

[diable rouge]

This is supposed to be preparing for No Deal. Even the S*n picked up on the lunacy that the Gov's No Deal planning would require deals to be done beforehand re. passporting to protect UK business and pensioners living in the EU. Raab's response was that it was in the EU's interest to do a deal for their citizens in the UK. But Dominic old bean, the whole point of this exercise is to plan for deals like that not being agreed. David Davis 2.0: The incompetency continues. At least with DD we got a ''What the fook am I doing?'' grin instead of Raab's sweatfest...

[diable rouge]

This is a good analysis of the papers released so far...

So much for cutting back on EU bureaucracy. At least with No. 9 we can join in the w*nkers that voted for it...

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> This is a good analysis of the papers released so

> far...

>

> 9386065920

> So much for cutting back on EU bureaucracy. At

> least with No. 9 we can join in the w*nkers that

> voted for it...

Everybody noticed the one small point (the Danish invasion as it were)

[diable rouge]

Remove the veneer of Brexiters' sloganeering soundbites and you're left with a vacuous void of nothingness. They simply haven't got a clue...

[malumbu]

Can you all do me a favour and say a little bit more about what these articles are about. i'm worried about clck bait and being drawn into ten pictures of what veteran celebrities look like now. At least with the TV I don't have to turn onto Channel 5.

It also seems rather lazy to post other people's articles and views without expressing a reasoned opinion. I'm in denial so I don't have one but have all of those on this site who posted really insightful stuff left, got bored or gone on holiday?

[JoeLeg]

There?s not much really going on Brexit-wise right now. The govt is realeasing this stuff, but I don?t think anyone really expects a ?no-deal?. Too much to lose on both sid

There?s also not a lot of reasoned debate going on, because we don?t know any more than we did three months ago. Everything is supposition right now, as well as tremendous amounts of spin and counter-spin. Mostly people are - I think - keeping their powder dry until parliament returns, conference season kicks off and we find out just how badly the Tories do or do not want to get rid of Theresa May.

The exception to this is Kate Hoey who needs to be deselected and and sent to her natural home of UKIP; an absolute disgrace of an ?MP? who is now ignoring her constituents needs in order to be the saviour of Brexit for the left, that is to say she?s simply feathering her own political nest. I?ve come to loath her.

[StraferJack]

If you genuinely think not much is going on in brexit land then I would suggest you haven?t been paying attention

How many days left now? And tomorrow? Before we become a third country and all that entails

The govt has published the first tranche of ?no deal? impact papers. Which all seem to be founded on the assistance of the eu to avoid Armageddon

JRM has casually suggested people checks on Irish border because ?that worked in the troubles?

That?s ?the troubles?. Not ?the everything?s grand sure?

British haulage had meetings with Chris grayling which left them gobsmacked about how little he knows

A million more things

Oh and did I mention how few days are left before we are out?

Be complacent if you like - most of England seems to be - but be assured. England is fucked and it?s taking the union down with it

Labour will never lift a finger under Corbyn

Tories might (too late?) realise the problem and ditch may with the idea of cancelling the whole thing - but maybe not

No one is being honest with the electorate about the reality - so of course the electorate are shrugging and currently saying ?nothing to see here?. But that doesn?t let them off the hook. This is about sovereignty and they are underlining how meaningless that is unless people put in the graft

[Alan Medic]

May won't even get the 'deal' she's hoping for after the Chequers week-end. For a start they have no solution to the Irish border problem. Even if a watered down deal is achieved with the EU (as any deal IS better than no deal), it will be voted on in parliament and likely to be rejected.

This would probably mean a GE. Given the time scale of that, they would have to ask for an extension to Art.50. If Labour offer another vote on the EU options, they might well win an election, in spite of Corbyn.

If there's another vote I would think it will be to stay in EU though a lot of damage has already been done to the country, and I don't underestimate the popularity of those shysters Farage, Johnson & Mogg. The result might be close again.

[JohnL]

?Look at what the director of the WTO has actually said. He said about a no deal situation that it would not be a walk in the park, but it wouldn?t be the end of the world.?

So it's somewhere between a walk in the park and the end of the world I guess. Maybe she's trying to wear us down.

[JohnL]

So Theresa May has given the go ahead for a feasibility study into a rival for Galileo/GPS.

get those satellite launchers ready.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45336001

[Captain Marvel]

Brit sat tech is a success story

[JohnL]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

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> Brit sat tech is a success story

True - but surely we can't afford an array of satellites.

[flocker spotter]

do we have another blue streak programme about to be launched ? or do we just lease & piggy back existing facilities ( i.e. the EU's)

this whole thing is absurd - how can we justify considering spending billions on a competitor for stuff that exists already & that we have significant investment in, to make some point about being nominally independent.We are unable to sort out internal infrastructure projects that are pencilled in a couple of years hence, never mind a space programme that need to be supported for possibly decades.Amongst everything else that needs supported

what a steaming turd of a country we are.

[Captain Marvel]

We are good at satellites and a satnav network could make GBUK a lot of money and employ a lot of people

[FightingFit]

flocker spotter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> do we have another blue streak programme about to

> be launched ? or do we just lease & piggy back

> existing facilities ( i.e. the EU's)

>

> this whole thing is absurd - how can we justify

> considering spending billions on a competitor for

> stuff that exists already & that we have

> significant investment in, to make some point

> about being nominally independent.We are unable to

> sort out internal infrastructure projects that are

> pencilled in a couple of years hence, never mind a

> space programme that need to be supported for

> possibly decades.Amongst everything else that

> needs supported

>

>

> what a steaming turd of a country we are.

Unfortunately totally true