Brexit View

[JohnL]

It is an annotated version of Theresa Mays deal

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/revised_withdrawal_agreement_including_protocol_on_ireland_and_nothern_ireland.pdf

[uncleglen]

Here is the map of how constituencies voted

https://app.polimapper.co.uk/?dataSetKey=bc97e5c1c63d4eb4954038ea0461832a

The TOTAL population of Scotland is only 5.4 million by the way....

[pk]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Can the 52% tell me what they voted for

They didn?t vote for anything, they voted against something which is why it?s impossible to deliver

So totally agree, need to ask the people whether they want this deal or not

[Sephiroth]

"The TOTAL population of Scotland is only 5.4 million by the way...."

anyone want a go at what cuddly Glen means with this? Is he saying it's a small country and therefore doesn't as much ?

[diable rouge]

There have been some strange bedfellows during the Brexit process but this takes some beating, Farage snuggling under the duvet with Hilary Benn... :)

So an unelected, retiring bureaucrat says: No extension, take this new treaty or just leave.

He is overriding the Benn Act. The EU shows itself to be a thuggocracy - power without accountability.

Appalling people.

[JohnL]

LOL someone loudly humming the Russian national anthem as Sky News interview Clair Fox from Brussels.

[TheCat]

Genuine question to remainers, posed in good faith, so appreciate any responses in the same spirit.

If the UK and the EU struck a zero tariff, zero quota free-trade deal....how might that change your view of brexit?

[Captain Marvel]

A good question. Fingers crossed you'll be spared the sneering opprobrium

[Sephiroth]

just on it's own terms, not looking at other effects, a zero tarrif deal would only be about tarrifs. It would have little impact on rules of origins and would require significant red-tape and extra paperwork.

SO like much of brexit, it requires a LOT of extra effort, the goodwill of other nations and risk of splitting up the union to achieve very little at all

If the deal struck yesterday was the one advertised on buses 3 years ago would it have won? Not even close

[Sephiroth]

I see Raab is rolling out lines about it being "a cracking deal for Northern Ireland because it will keep friction-less access to the single market"

But if that is A Good Thing.. etc etc

[zerkalo]

It won't change my view of it at all. Brexit is still a very bad idea that will leave the country poorer, more bitter and divided. It also takes away established reciprocal rights such as FoM. As Brexiters like to point out, it's not only about the economy and free-trade deals. It's about the kind of country the UK is going to be in the future. I don't like that future promised by Brexit at all.

TheCat Wrote:

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> Genuine question to remainers, posed in good

> faith, so appreciate any responses in the same

> spirit.

>

> If the UK and the EU struck a zero tariff, zero

> quota free-trade deal....how might that change

> your view of brexit?

[JohnL]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> I see Raab is rolling out lines about it being "a

> cracking deal for Northern Ireland because it will

> keep friction-less access to the single market"

>

> But if that is A Good Thing.. etc etc

gung ho Brits don't need single market access I guess

[stepdown]

TheCat Wrote:

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> If the UK and the EU struck a zero tariff, zero

> quota free-trade deal....how might that change

> your view of brexit?

It's difficult to answer when the deal you've set out is so vague, it focuses only on one aspect and glosses over all the detail that has hamstrung the process so far. I would be comfortable with a Norway style deal as an example, but the Overton window has shifted so far that is now seen as Brexit in name only by many.

That said, as "a remainer" I voted to maintain the status quo, and am comfortable with the current compromises we make. We already trade with the EU on better terms than you described, how could it possibly change my view?

[malumbu]

Watching Newsnight filled me with dread. The Tory independents veering to voting for the deal. A growing number of Labour MPs in leave constituencies indicating similarly.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/pro-brexit-mps-represent-remain-constituencies-509736 I've totted up those constituencies that voted over 52% remain with Leave supporting MPs 25 of which 19 were Tories including Grayling, Rabb, Redwood and Brady. I doubt whether any of those will reject the bid so no reciprocity there. And Hooey of course as the most notable of Labour. Ouch.

Got this off BBC comments - incredibly patronising/superior etc but amused me

Brexit really is like watching your library being burned down by people that can't read.

[Sephiroth]

It?s the whole ?gets it done? angle that?s killing me at the moment

Anyone who think this allows us to move on to other issues just hasn?t been paying any attention to anything

[uncleglen]

interesting poll of 26,000 people

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/remain-or-leave-is-no-longer-the-key-brexit-question/

[malumbu]

In deed, got to hand to the ERG frustrating May on the matter of the back stop. When their bigger aim was to frustrate the electorate, so that they would be so desperate "any deal will do" irrespective of greater damage and doing the dirty on the NI.

[Sephiroth]

Alternative reading of same poll

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/channel-5-comres-poll-on-brexit-1-6325932

Even then, the poll is showing how people respond in the face of politicians and media largely buying the govt line - a deal is possible which will benefit the country

When the reality hits, like the iraq war, you won't be able to find anyone who supported it

[keano77]

Off topic I know but I supported the Iraq war

It?s no use slagging off Brendan O?Neill above if you supported Sadam Hussien

Back on topic - why are Remainers whinging about Boris? crap deal when the surrender Act sent Boris in to negotiate with the EU like a trussed up chlorinated chicken?

[Alan Medic]

keano77 Wrote:

>

> Back on topic - why are Remainers whinging about

> Boris? crap deal when the surrender Act sent Boris

> in to negotiate with the EU like a trussed up

> chlorinated chicken?

Possibly because Remainers want to remain, and don't wish a 'no-deal' arrangement imposed on the country by the hard right Tories.

[malumbu]

All remainers are supporters of Saddam Hussein? What tosh. The west did a great job of supporting him, and the disaster of the second Gulf War will be there for decades. Not a simple case of a despot that needed removing or else we'd invade China, North Korea, Russia, Syria and numerous other countries

That nonsense falls sort of some of even some of the rabid comments on the BBC website.

Happy to have a chat about geopolitics anytime. Not sure how aligning ourselves to Trump will do any good for world stability. What did the Romans ever do for us eh?

Here is a brilliant history lesson:

 

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Off topic I know but I supported the Iraq war

>

> It?s no use slagging off Brendan O?Neill above if

> you supported Sadam Hussien

>

Goes right back to the first Gulf War - and that was Iraq versus Iran in the 1980s

Everything then was a chess game between the West and the Soviet Union.

[JohnL]

Where'd you get the bag Dom ?

"An independent publisher which celebrates forgotten female authors said it is "devastated" after pictures emerged of Dominic Cummings carrying on its tote bags."

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/independent-book-publisher-devastated-after-dominic-cummings-is-pictured-carrying-its-tote-bag-a4269566.html

[Captain Marvel]

"In a word, we are devastated."

Sack the editor

[Sue]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

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> "In a word, we are devastated."

>

> Sack the editor

:))