Brexit View

[diable rouge]

Didn't realise that Cummings and a lot of the ERG hate each other. During the leadership contest when there were whispers he was involved in Johnson's campaign, these were denied as a smear by the Raab camp in order to keep the ERGers onside and not transfer their support to Raab. More fun and games ahead then from the party that continues to eat itself...

[JohnL]

Oh Dear

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49097963

[diable rouge]

Sky news presenter just had a Jeremy *unt faux pas, meanwhile someone in the background is playing some 'tinkling' tunes, all very surreal...and fitting.

[diable rouge]

It gets better, David Mellor has rocked up looking like a poor man's Andy Warhol tribute act while the musical box in the background plays The Red Flag...

[Passiflora]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He almost had me believing a deal is there ... but

> it's not is it.

>

> My German work colleagues tell me he is being

> reported totally differently there(and not in a

> good way)

I don't think we should be worrying how the people of Germany should be viewing us.

And yes, to the previous posters who seem to have got themselves in a bit of a jumble, I did vote Leave.

[cella]

You don't care how others view us?

[JohnL]

Passiflora Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > He almost had me believing a deal is there ...

> but

> > it's not is it.

> >

> > My German work colleagues tell me he is being

> > reported totally differently there(and not in a

> > good way)

>

> I don't think we should be worrying how the people

> of Germany should be viewing us.

>

> And yes, to the previous posters who seem to have

> got themselves in a bit of a jumble, I did vote

> Leave.

We need to make sure these people are seen to be destroyed s well as destroyed (politically that is)

[JohnL]

2 tories to cross the floor and me and others work every day to persuade them

[JohnL]

and just again (sure I've said it) Daily Express - pro-brexit Tory and Daily Mirror anti Brexit Labour are the same company.

You're all being conned

[diable rouge]

Looks like you took my lunchtime drink advice John :)

I'd argue that it's much better and healthier for democracy to have an owner that is happy to cater for both readerships of the Brexit divide than solely being in favour of one side. Of course it would be much better if all papers were independent and just reported news factually and impartially. I'm personally more worried about social media and how that is preventing rational, civilised debate...

[JohnL]

I'd had one or two (as Boris might say).

My twitter is just a shouting match some days so I agree it doesn't help.

[Sephiroth]

"I'd argue that it's much better and healthier for democracy to have an owner that is happy to cater for both readerships of the Brexit divide than solely being in favour of one side"

I see this a lot - I'm not sure how it works in practice tho

I think the best course would be to revoke, whilst telling Leave voters that we are doing so simply because so much of a mess has been made of this and we have run out of time. Once we revoke we have a national debate about what we are prepared to give up in order to leave the EU. And once the country agrees on what they are prepared to give up then we could try leaving again

2 problems of course (well, at least 2. But for now....)

1) you would be at the mercy of the EU allowing you to revoke if they know they are going to have to go thru all this again

2) The No Deal nutters are vocal and wouldn't allow it

But in no universe will I ever equate No Dealers vs Remainers as in any way equivalent levels of extremes. They simply are very very different things. Any mid point between Remaining and No Deal simply begs the question "why bother?"

Sure I could LIVE with some pseudo-Norway type deal but it wouldn't please leavers and it wouldn't please remainers and it would only temporarily satisfy some notion of "balance"

[Hemingway]

get away with your sensibleness

[Seabag]

😳 ooop wrong thread

[diable rouge]

It won't be long before they have to doff their caps to him... https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-26/itv-news-exclusive-jacob-rees-mogg-issues-style-guide-to-staff/

[Seabag]

The new cabinet reminds me of the cast of Toy Story

All the odd and unloved bits, chucked together for an adventure.

?Toys Tory: To Infinity and Beyond the Cliff Edge?

[JohnL]

Boris in front of Stephenson's Rocket going on about spending on this, that and the other, probably electioneering. Remainers are apparently akin to the naysayers who said the engine was going too fast.

Sounded very Keynesian to me - as if he is going to borrow and "go for growth".

[diable rouge]

Glockenspiel Man's Greatest Hits Vol 1...

[malumbu]

It's good to see that we are going to reclaim our rich and diverse language. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/the-comma-touch-jacob-rees-mogg-sends-language-rules-to-staff

A bit of a non-story in that it is right to draft letters properly (even for me as a product of a comprehensive school) and ministers will have a style guide. You can argue about split infinitives but I am on board with removing redundant words, and definitely limiting !!!!!.

To like quote Giles Brandreth, like, who was like on the BBC news just now like, like it is not right, to like, use like, all the time like. Innit? Like? He rightly said the English vocabulary is the richest in the world, quoting half a million words although my quick Google only showed 176k in the OED, as opposed to 130k for an unconfirmed source on the French language.

Although if we are reclaiming our language we will need to return to Saxon and old Norse, none of this foreign rubbish (ignoring that these were German and Scandinavian settlers) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_language_influences_in_English

[ianr]

Sephiroth wrote:

> 1) you would be at the mercy of the EU

> allowing you to revoke if they know they are going

> to have to go thru all this again

The ECJ thinks differently.

"The United Kingdom is free to revoke unilaterally the notification of its intention to withdraw from the EU

"Such a revocation, decided in accordance with its own national constitutional requirements, would have the effect that the United Kingdom remains in the EU under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State"

-- from ECJ press release No.191/18 of 10 Dec. 2018 https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2018-12/cp180191en.pdf, which contains a link to the judgment papers, case C-621/18.

[Sephiroth]

Oh i know about the legality of it - I?ve long argued with leavers and

Some remainders that we can do this

It?s the doing it whilst also

Saying you might trigger again and possibly quite soon that means things become tricksier

[malumbu]

Gyles not Giles. Sorry. I would commit Treason though by refusing to use imperial units. WTF.

[JohnL]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sephiroth wrote:

> > 1) you would be at the mercy of the EU

> > allowing you to revoke if they know they are

> going

> > to have to go thru all this again

>

> The ECJ thinks differently.

>

> "The United Kingdom is free to revoke unilaterally

> the notification of its intention to withdraw from

> the EU

>

> "Such a revocation, decided in accordance with its

> own national constitutional requirements, would

> have the effect that the United Kingdom remains in

> the EU under terms that are unchanged as regards

> its status as a Member State"

> -- from ECJ press release No.191/18 of 10 Dec.

> 2018

> https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/applicati

> on/pdf/2018-12/cp180191en.pdf, which contains a

> link to the judgment papers, case C-621/18.

You've missed the additional bit that it has to be done in "good faith" (which was actually added by the advocate general)

"In his opinion, advocate general Manuel Campos S?nchez-Bordona set out an additional condition that he said the UK should have to satisfy if it were to decide to revoke Brexit unilaterally. He said the UK would need to observe the principles of "good faith and sincere cooperation" when exercising the option to reverse Brexit. That condition is not specified in the CJEU's ruling, however."

[malumbu]

Wow, what a day. I've seen misplaced optimism from a minister with my own eyes - sorry can't say more. And the chances of no deal are a million to one, but still it comes (with respect to Jeff Wayne - sorry too late for the groover flicker thread)

 

[Passiflora]

Sorry you can't say more malumbu but couldn't really be bothered to watch a war of the worlds video? Bring on Boris!