Brexit View

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > From today, people who have lived in the UK

> > working and paying taxes, some for decades,

> some

> > having married UK citizens and having UK

> children,

> > are losing their right to stay here in their

> > homes, with their friends/families...

>

> That?s not true is it - naughty Red Devil

https://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2019/january/extended-uk-settlement-pilot-scheme-begins-on-monday/

"From Monday, all UK resident EU citizens with a valid EU passport will be able to apply, provided that they have access to an Android device on which they can install a Home Office app through which they can confirm their identity. "

You are of course completely b&llox%d if you have an Apple Device it seems.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Reed Mogg is articulate and well practiced in the art of debating. He is all the dangerous for that.

[keano77]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> Well, so long as they pay to stay then it?s not

> true. But as even JRM said this morning, that?s

> grossly unfair and should not be happening.

>

> If they don?t pay, then by definition they won?t

> have settled status and will have to leave at some

> point. I think the point DR (and Mogg) is making

> is that it?s a pretty dishonourable way of going

> about things in terms of people who have lived and

> paid taxes here, to tell them they have to stump

> up the cost of staying if they want to.

> ?65 may not be much to many people, but the

> principle is what matters here.

I don?t disagree with that JoeLeg. I?d prefer it wasn?t the case. However I had to take Red Devil to task about the way he worded his post in case the more susceptible Remainers on here believed the misinformation.

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well, so long as they pay to stay then it?s not

> > true. But as even JRM said this morning, that?s

> > grossly unfair and should not be happening.

> >

> > If they don?t pay, then by definition they

> won?t

> > have settled status and will have to leave at

> some

> > point. I think the point DR (and Mogg) is

> making

> > is that it?s a pretty dishonourable way of

> going

> > about things in terms of people who have lived

> and

> > paid taxes here, to tell them they have to

> stump

> > up the cost of staying if they want to.

> > ?65 may not be much to many people, but the

> > principle is what matters here.

>

> I don?t disagree with that JoeLeg. I?d prefer it

> wasn?t the case. However I had to take Red Devil

> to task about the way he worded his post in case

> the more susceptible Remainers on here believed

> the misinformation.

Don't always believe that Remainers are susceptible - I'd say they are pretty sceptical - but it now seems the spreading of "fake news" especially on some social media platforms is acceptable to influence the remaining neutrals and now it's done on both sides. The other side is likely to just block anyway so we have the "echo chamber" effect as both sides block each other.

[JohnL]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Reed Mogg is articulate and well practiced in the

> art of debating. He is all the dangerous for that.

Although apparently he's just said that only Central London wants to stop Brexit.

Now at least he could have said "Inner London (Zones 1-4)"

[JoeLeg]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Reed Mogg is articulate and well practiced in the

> art of debating. He is all the dangerous for that.

Oh I agree. He?s not someone I would ever vote for and there?s myriad things on which I disagree with him, but I feel credit where credit is due, there are aspects of his Leave position which I respect. Shares of grey and all that...

[JohnL]

?65 fee for "settled status" scrapped by Mrs May.

[JohnL]

So Cameron allegedly told Donald Tusk there was no risk of a referendum as the Liberal Democrats would veto it during coalition negotiations after the 2015 election. Then he only went and got a majority :)

"It was like his day of reckoning was coming, reckoning for his biggest mistake in his life.?

Best laid plans of mice and men.

https://www.politico.eu/article/european-council-president-donald-tusk-warned-david-cameron-about-stupid-brexit-referendum/

[diable rouge]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, so long as they pay to stay then it?s not

> true. But as even JRM said this morning, that?s

> grossly unfair and should not be happening.

> If they don?t pay, then by definition they won?t

> have settled status and will have to leave at some

> point. I think the point DR (and Mogg) is making

> is that it?s a pretty dishonourable way of going

> about things in terms of people who have lived and

> paid taxes here, to tell them they have to stump

> up the cost of staying if they want to.

> ?65 may not be much to many people, but the

> principle is what matters here.

Exactly, it's nothing to do with the now withdrawn cost (that's +?400m down the swanny in admin costs by the way), it's the principle of asking them to register in the first place, and the consequences if they don't should we Brexit...

[keano77]

Dropping the fee was welcomed but what our EU friends are still annoyed about is that they have to apply not register. Applications could be refused.

Post Windrush, you?d think the powers that be would know better.

[TheCat]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Dropping the fee was welcomed but what our EU

> friends are still annoyed about is that they have

> to apply not register. Applications could be

> refused.

>

> Post Windrush, you?d think the powers that be

> would know better.

Im one of your EU friends. And I'm not annoyed in the slightest. Of course, I don't speak for the whole EU....so just consider me a case study.

[keano77]

I?m pleased to read you are not one of those offended TheCat. I was repeating what I heard on the BBC when a spokesperson for the3million was interviewed earlier today and was explaining some potential difficulties for EU citizens with the application process.

[JoeLeg]

To judge from the (comparatively extremely small) sample of EU citizens that I know well, none of them seem particularly annoyed or offended by it, any more than by any other piece of admin they have to deal with.

They do feel that the govt could have handled the whole thing better, but they?re hardly alone in that.

However, a dozen or so immigrants in south east London is hardly a statiscally acceptable number so I could be wrong.

[diable rouge]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Dropping the fee was welcomed but what our EU

> > friends are still annoyed about is that they

> have

> > to apply not register. Applications could be

> > refused.

> >

> > Post Windrush, you?d think the powers that be

> > would know better.

>

> Im one of your EU friends. And I'm not annoyed in

> the slightest. Of course, I don't speak for the

> whole EU....so just consider me a case study.

You don't speak for TheCat either, he's Australian...:)

[diable rouge]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> However, a dozen or so immigrants in south east

> London is hardly a statiscally acceptable number

> so I could be wrong.

Plenty are worried such as this group...https://twitter.com/the3million

Let's not forget Brits in the EU too. All citizens should've had their existing rights ring-fenced as part of the WA...

[Blah Blah]

I agree. Given that most people here have been paying taxes for years and decades in some cases (my wife included)and are already well known on existing bureacratic databases, their rights should have been ring fenced. It is the notion of 'application' that irks me most. If it were simply a case of giving an automatic right to remain status, that would be fine. But the language of application suggests some people will be turned down and mistakes will be made.

[Alan Medic]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > keano77 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Dropping the fee was welcomed but what our EU

> > > friends are still annoyed about is that they

> > have

> > > to apply not register. Applications could be

> > > refused.

> > >

> > > Post Windrush, you?d think the powers that be

> > > would know better.

> >

> > Im one of your EU friends. And I'm not annoyed

> in

> > the slightest. Of course, I don't speak for the

> > whole EU....so just consider me a case study.

>

>

> You don't speak for TheCat either, he's

> Australian...:)

Not good on geography. Is Australia in Europe?

[keano77]

Is TheCat confused with Australia?s participation in the European Song Contest?

That?s a point, will we be banned from the contest if we leave?

[JoeLeg]

That would at least be one upside to it!

[Blah Blah]

The EU and the EBU are two different things so no, we are stuck with the misery of Eurovision humiliation for a good while yet.

[JohnL]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> The EU and the EBU are two different things so no,

> we are stuck with the misery of Eurovision

> humiliation for a good while yet.

Wouldn't be surprised if we finish last for the next 10 years - that's pretty normal anyway.

[diable rouge]

Mr Corbyn is being found out. His six tests for a Brexit plan are rightly dismissed as impossible to meet. His demand that the?prime minister take no-deal off the table rings hollow when he refuses to throw his weight behind a viable alternative. He is starting to look like just another politician gambling with people?s lives for his?own advantage.

Part of an excellent piece in the FT...https://www.ft.com/content/a88bcee2-1d5d-11e9-b2f7-97e4dbd3580d

[Alan Medic]

This is a great thread on all the EU laws the UK has had to suck up over the years...?..

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mr Corbyn is being found out. His six tests for a

> Brexit plan are rightly dismissed as impossible to

> meet. His demand that the?prime minister take

> no-deal off the table rings hollow when he refuses

> to throw his weight behind a viable alternative.

> He is starting to look like just another

> politician gambling with people?s lives for

> his?own advantage.

>

> Part of an excellent piece in the

> FT...https://www.ft.com/content/a88bcee2-1d5d-11e9

> -b2f7-97e4dbd3580d

The chink of light is

"There are also signs the Labour leadership could throw its weight behind a cross-party amendment, introduced by Labour backbencher Yvette Cooper and former Tory minister Nick Boles that would delay the March 29 Brexit date if no deal is agreed with Brussels by February 26."

[diable rouge]

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