car clubs - do we need more of them?

[carclubresearch]

I originally posted this (see below) in the lounge section but got no responses - don't know if it will be better here - but if you have anything to say about car clubs please put it down - I am formulating my questionnaire - thanks!

I have just started to do a research project on car clubs. I work at the Centre for Transport Studies, UCL and got interested in car clubs when Streetcar did a big promotional activity in East Dulwich. Funding for the project comes from UCL so I have no vested interests although I do think they are a good idea.

I am interested in finding out about people?s experiences of using a car club and what their views of them are. I would like to know what sorts of lifestyle car clubs fits in with and where it doesn?t seem to be appropriate. I would also like to understand more about the economics of it ? for whom and when does it make economic sense to use car club and when not.

If any of you are car club users or have views about them I would love to hear from you. Here are some questions to get the ball rolling:

? What sorts of trips is car club good for and when doesn?t it make sense?

? Do you think there should be more parking bays allocated to car clubs?

? Is it possible to manage with young kids with car club as your only access to a car?

? If you have used a club car would you recommend doing so to others? Why? Why not?

? If you own a car would you think of giving it up now that you have joined car club? (Or not buying that planned second car?)

? What stops you joining a car club?

Look forward to hearing from you, Belinda

[louisiana]

carclubresearch Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I originally posted this (see below) in the lounge

> section but got no responses - don't know if it

> will be better here - but if you have anything to

> say about car clubs please put it down - I am

> formulating my questionnaire - thanks!

>

>

> I have just started to do a research project on

> car clubs. I work at the Centre for Transport

> Studies, UCL and got interested in car clubs when

> Streetcar did a big promotional activity in East

> Dulwich. Funding for the project comes from UCL so

> I have no vested interests although I do think

> they are a good idea.

>

> I am interested in finding out about people?s

> experiences of using a car club and what their

> views of them are. I would like to know what sorts

> of lifestyle car clubs fits in with and where it

> doesn?t seem to be appropriate. I would also like

> to understand more about the economics of it ? for

> whom and when does it make economic sense to use

> car club and when not.

>

> If any of you are car club users or have views

> about them I would love to hear from you. Here are

> some questions to get the ball rolling:

>

> ? What sorts of trips is car club good for and

> when doesn?t it make sense?

Probably if you are carrying stuff, and if it's relatively local (start and end points).

> ? Do you think there should be more parking bays

> allocated to car clubs?

Yes.

> ? Is it possible to manage with young kids with

> car club as your only access to a car?

n/a

> ? If you have used a club car would you recommend

> doing so to others? Why? Why not?

Have not used, but would promote use of. Anything that gets cars off the road. So many people say they need a car to go to the supermarket, which strikes me as a bit daft. (Centralise shops then make cars necessary to go to them?)

I think car clubs will contribute to some extent to making roads better for other road users (pedestrians, cyclists).

> ? If you own a car would you think of giving it up

> now that you have joined car club? (Or not buying

> that planned second car?)

Don't own a car.

I have a bicycle, and walk, and use the odd taxi and a fair bit of public transport if going longer distances.

> ? What stops you joining a car club?

Voluntarily gave up licence - medical condition and not sensible to drive.

[carclubresearch]

Thanks for answering Louisiana. Yes I don't really understand about needing the car to go to supermarkets. If I am doing a big shop and not using online ordering and deliveries I get a taxi - it works out much cheaper than running a car!

[peterstorm1985]

carclubresearch Wrote:

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> Thanks for answering Louisiana. Yes I don't really

> understand about needing the car to go to

> supermarkets. If I am doing a big shop and not

> using online ordering and deliveries I get a taxi

> - it works out much cheaper than running a car!

You've just mentioned the reason why I don't understand the need for car clubs. Why not just get a taxi? Yes, I know it may cost a little more (I don't know the cost of car club cars) but they come to your house so it's more convenient and there is no need to have special parking bays set aside.

[Jeremy]

I think car clubs probably work well for longer distances. Try getting a taxi to somewhere 30-40 miles out of London and back, it would probably cost something like ?150.

[carclubresearch]

Hi Peterstorm

I totally understand about taxis although I tend to get them back from the supermarket and get the bus there cause I'm not carrying anything...but I'm probably lucky having bus stops to the supermarket near me. I don't know whether supermarket trips are one of the main reasons people run cars, or whether they really don't have much alternative. That is the sort of thing I hope to find out from doing this research.

Needing a parking bay isn't an argument against car clubs because when people have good access to a club car they are more likely to give up owning a car. Current data suggests that one car club car replaces 20 privately owned vehicles (that is a conservative estimate)

http://www.carplus.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Annual-Survery-Report-2009-10.pdf (page 14 of the 2009-2010 Annual Survey Report)

so the overall impact is to reduce space taken up with parked cars.

[peterstorm1985]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think car clubs probably work well for longer

> distances. Try getting a taxi to somewhere 30-40

> miles out of London and back, it would probably

> cost something like ?150.

Good point re cost of taxis for longer distances, but on the very odd occasion that I might need a car for a longer distance (although if I possibly could I'd use the train - I like reading when I'm travelling) I'd just hire a car from a car hire company.

carclubresearch

There does seem to be an awful lot of use of the word 'implies' in the survey report you gave a link to. That makes me a little suspicious. And, forgive me if it's in there and I missed it, but is there any research into any members who leave car clubs? I wonder if a few previous non-owners of cars try car club and then decide what a nice idea it is to have convenient access to a car and go off and buy one. This isn't cynicism; I just like to see the complete picture.

[carclubresearch]

Hi Peterstorm - re that report - I think those researchers are just incredibly rigorous - unless there is completely watertight evidence for something - they probably wouldn't use a stronger word than implies.

There is evidence I think about people leaving car clubs. Usually I think they are people who have found they use it so little that it isn't worth being a member. I doubt whether joining a car club would actually encourage someone who had never owned a car from buying one - I think it would be more likely to delay them buying one but I'm open to persuasion. It would be good to interview someone who had stopped being a member.

Re Jeremy's point about longer journeys yes that makes complete sense but I would also agree about the train or car hire company. I am getting the picture of car clubs fitting into quite a specific type of journey....

[????]

many people have kids,,,,,,

[DJKillaQueen]

And some of us have no option but to drive to work....

[pk]

carclubresearch Wrote:

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> ? Is it possible to manage with young kids with

> car club as your only access to a car?

i believe that there are some people who for various reasons manage to have children without owning a car or being a member of a car club!

[????]

Of course there are, I'd never realized, how silly of me... and how noble....I bow to them........

[carclubresearch]

Hi pk and ???? I suppose it seems obvious that people have kids and no car. What I want to find out in my project is how their lifestyle,quality of life etc would differ from those who had a car...but I'm not sure if doing research on a forum is a good idea...

djkillaqueen - so yes some people do have to drive to work - but what's interesting to me is why? Is that cause of bad public transport connections in a particular direction, is it cause of needing car at work, is it cause of errands that need to be done to and from work....but maybe really a forum isn't a place for doing research! just trialling a new methodology...that's how I'd put it...

[Brendan]

When my son is big enough to carry my golf clubs I may consider getting rid of the car.

[????]

I thought you lived on one in Surrey? Most people do.

[pk]

???? Wrote:

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> Of course there are, I'd never realized, how silly

> of me... and how noble....I bow to them........

if you're trying to say something here, i've no idea what it is

[Jeremy]

peterstorm1985 Wrote:

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> Good point re cost of taxis for longer distances,

> but on the very odd occasion that I might need a

> car for a longer distance (although if I possibly

> could I'd use the train - I like reading when I'm

> travelling) I'd just hire a car from a car hire

> company.

I guess it depends how often you'd need to do it. There aren't many car hire places near here, so getting there in the first place is a bit of added hassle. Car clubs aren't for everybody, but I can understand the attraction.

[Huguenot]

Yeah, peterstorm is being a bit impractical.

To hire a car from ED the closest good value offering was Thrifty at London Bridge, and a minimum was a day. It entailed paperwork and passports along with a big credit card gap for the deposit.

For a trip to Bluewater that was silly. Streetcar had 5 cars in the area and I could book online at what was then a fiver an hour, with no additional cost for petrol.

I could book online through a simple interface, make a 2 min walk, wave my membership card at the windscreen and I was off.

There is no doubt that some people need a car for the daily drive to work or managing a large family.

There is also no doubt that for some car ownership is a rite of passage to adulthood, an indulgence, a material representation of freedom, a demonstration of personal wealth, a fanny magnet, two fingers to an oppressive society, a political affiliation to libertarianism, an affiliation with a social tribe, a social weapon ("I'm better than you"), a psychological crutch and much more.

The challenge for car clubs is that their target market for customers all fall into the latter group.

The problem is that car club arguments are all logical and rational (along practical lines), when their target market are into car ownership for irrational and often emotional reasons.

I disagree with the OP that this is the wrong place for market research. It will reveal the underlying social tensions that surround car ownership and perhaps, if they are astute enough, highlight the strategy to advance the cause.

Addressing these issues involves subtle messages that car ownership is environmental rape, that competing with your neighbors is less advantageous than collaborating, that girls should be attracted to boys with a social conscience, that car ownership is a handicap not a liberation, that achievers speak softly, and that ostentatious displays of wealth are a sign of weakness not strength.

It remains to be seen whether car clubs have the guts and leadership qualities to hammer these messages home, or whether they find themselves anxiously wringing their hands in the corner wondering why no-one else is sharing the love.

The OP's apologetic semi-withdrawal from the debate suggests s/he falls into the latter category. To which I can only recommend that they 'man-up' and roll with the punches until they are prepared to take a stand.

[James Barber]

Southwark has over 6,000 car clubs members. It is the most rapidly expanding car club in the UK and had just won an award for this.

[peterstorm1985]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> Yeah, peterstorm is being a bit impractical.

Perhaps my view on the value of car clubs is affected by the fact that there is nothing on god's earth that could entice me to Bluewater.

>

> Addressing these issues involves subtle messages

> ............that girls should be attracted

> to boys with a social conscience, ........ and that ostentatious

> displays of wealth are a sign of weakness not

> strength.

>

If you could get these messages across to the target audience you suggest you would easily resolve a lot more social ills than unnecessary car ownership.

[Huguenot]

I understand the Bluewater thing. Only twice.

Plenty of other times to whatever irrelevance.

As many fule on this forum kno, I work in advertising. As such I'm aware of what small communication tweaks are necessary to deliver massive social change. I'm also aware that the committee driven structure precludes such activity.

The COI budget is quite enough.

Sadness.

[carclubresearch]

Hi Huguenot - I just want to stress that I am doing academic research not market research . Part of the reason why I felt that maybe it wasn't such a good idea was because some of the discussion didn't seem very useful (although I hadn't actually given consideration to how someone might carry their golf clubs to the club car), but actually your last posting has made it all worthwhile - and if quoting (don't worry all anonymously) I'm sure if 'fanny magnet' will liven up an academic text!

[LadyDeliah]

I sold my car about 3 years ago and joined streetcar. I use it for dropping off and collecting my daughter from her dad's, collecting heavy items from the supermarket or Freecycle or dropping things at the recycle centre in Manor Place.

That kind of thing. I cycle to work and use the train or a rental car usually for long journeys. I find that using a streetcar has massively reduced my transport costs, because I always use my bike for short journeys, but if I had a car, I might just use it because it is there.

I am fitter too because I use my bike more. I have to ferry a 4 year old around and, with just one kid to deal with, I find I don't often need a car to get about. If I had more maybe I'd feel different, although my nearest streetcar is only 2 minutes away and I can book it on my iPhone in 30 seconds if I need to.

[carclubresearch]

Can you think of any negatives to not owning a car? Any times when you really feel it is a problem?

[Jeremy]

Well, you can spontaneously decide to travel somewhere without worrying about whether there is a car available nearby. And you can return home whenever you want, without watching the clock. Also, car club cars are mainly quite small, not suitable for large amounts of luggage.

(before anyone jumps down my throat, of course car-clubs have numerous advantages too)