Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Nero Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, come on! If I saw a man or woman beating a

> child about the head or neck in a public place for

> some minor misdemeanour, I would tear a strip off

> them. Stop cowering behind hoary claptrap like

> 'different cultural values' and do the right

> thing!



Oh really?! Probably resulting in poor child receiving an even bigger beating when he/she gets indoors.


No one is 'cowering behind different values claptrap'. NO ONE is saying it's right. I spent two years as a child living in Egypt and we were hit in school by the teachers with sticks/rulers (rather like Annette's photo above!). I remember a teacher slapping me around the face because I had the audacity to throw my sandwich in the bin. I was a six year old girl. Just accept that, whether right or wrong, in a lot of cultures this is what is deemed as discipline or punishment.

"If my neighbour thumped his son for keying a car, I'd congratulate him."


"NO ONE is saying it's right."


Going to have to disagree with you there. I think someone did say it was not just right, but worth congratulating. I think I'd rather offend an adult that risk the safety of a child.


http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/statistics/prevalence_and_incidence_of_child_abuse_and_neglect_wda48740.html

Actually, as it was in response to my comment about child being in for a beating for keying a car, the word 'thumped' in this context needs to be replaced with 'beat with a big stick' - not quite the same as 'slap on the backside' or 'clip on the ear'.
Whilst in Egypt it may have been acceptable and the norm, in this country it's not ok to beat children. One of the most memorable things I took away from a child protection study day some years ago was one of the trainers saying "don't let culture paralyse you"
Make him confess and apologise to neigbour in your presence.If he as any savings use them to repair any damage done. Take away pocket money, computer games whatever means most. Get him to offer to clean neighbours car for a period of time, there are many ways of dealing with it other than a beating.
It is a very difficult one, but I agree if what you are saying did happen we should intervene as a child myself coming from a part Caribbean background I was smacked across my backside not very often so it not just Africans that discipline that way with my daughter my look is enough.
As a young child, @ 6 years old, I took some money out of my mum's purse and went off with my younger brother to spend it on some sweets. Of course, we got found out and it was straight up to bed with no dinner and a trepidatious wait for my dad to get home when I got a few whacks across my bum with his slipper. Thinking back, he was quite restrained about the delivery, it was the shock and awe of it that was such a powerful deterrent. Even at that age, I knew I'd done wrong, I knew why I was in trouble and I didn't ever do it again.

When I chucked a brick through a window of house near the woods where we used to live, the man caught me and gave me a hiding in front of my mates, then he took me to my house and told my Dad what I'd done and what he'd done, then watched my Dad give me a hiding. then I had the money extracted for 12 weeks out of my paper round wages by my Dad who told the newsagent owner. Also no pocket money and no pop for the 12 weeks.


When I'd saved-up the money to pay for the repair the owner had done I gave it to my Dad.

A few days later he gave me the whole sum back and said don't be so stupid next time.

When I was about 14, I nicked a can of hairspray and some hair bobbles from Boots (Lord knows why). I got caught and the police came! My friend who I was with at the time told her mum and I thought I'd got away with it..until her mother told mine. I remember listening in my bedroom whilst my mum was on the phone to her and bracing myself for the biggest hind-slapping imaginable. When she got off the phone she calmly called me over and then she burst into tears. I think that was worse than any slap she could have given me.
I see that my earlier comment has been taken to the usual reductio ad absurdum extreme in order to dismiss it. To anyone but a black-and-white thinker, an occasional smack is obviously not the same as a beating and if used sparingly and without anger can be clearer and more effective than a protracted attempt at reasoning or manipulating a reward-based system (and don't kid yourself that the latter two are intrinsically less of a power trip by the parent - I've seen both used to humiliating, cruel and disproportionate effect by parents my age, thanks).

It is interesting how this thread has changed from my opening post. I think I was more interested in how we tackle (and it MUST be tackled) parents who humiliate/abuse /punish their kids when the kids have done nothing wrong, or the punishment is way out of proportion to any apparent misdemeanour witnessed.

Earlier posts have given me food for thought and I thank you for your contributions. I will not stand by quietly in future and I will say something. Specially if there are other people around (for protection and witness, even if they don't do anything which most people won't!)

  • 3 weeks later...

I saw an African woman hitting a child of about 5 or 6 with something that looked like a stick on the pavement at Elephant and Castle. I stopped and looked at her, as if to make her understand that I had seen what she had done, but to my eternal shame I didn't say anything to her. I wish I had.


When my child was much smaller and prone to tantrums I would give her very severe tellings off/time outs (nothing physical) and occasionally someone would say something to me. It is v v annoying - especially if the intervener only saw a part of what prompted the telling off.


I also saw a man slap his child round the face on the bus because he didn't sit down when instructed to do so. The child was about 2 or 3. I was disgusted. Lots of people saw it happen. One man, as he was getting off the bus said "I saw you hit that child". The parent tried to explain his behaviour by saying that the boy was "bad". The man interrupted him and said "bring him up properly and he will do what you say. If you hit him again, I will hit you". I thought things might escalate but the parent who hit the kid seemed to accept what the man said. I was v v impressed. It is always very difficult in confined spaces to confront people because you never know how it will end up. But I feel that if we, as a society, stand by and watch people abuse children in public we are effectively sending out a message that this sort of behaviour is acceptable.


I think you have to speak out when you see violence towards children. No matter what. If the "parent" is prepared to use violence in public what they do in private must be unimaginable. It must be condemned.

The only acceptable reason for not speaking up is fear that the child is attacked even worse behind closed doors afterwards.


If I saw someone hitting a child especially with an implement, which I consider absolutely unacceptable, I would call 999 and wait till they arrived to give a statement.


If you are threatened by another adult as some posters have stated, that is in itself an assault and something that could lead to a custodial sentence. Call the police.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread so this may already have been mentioned.


IMO the parents who are most likely to hit their children in public tend to be people with low levels of education, and they may not have the resources to (a) learn better parenting techniques and (b) obtain support for themselves when in difficult situations. Some of these people may be in inadequate housing, have insufficient funds to live on, have adult abusive relationships in the home environment already etc. Learning appropriate parenting techniques is simply not a priority for them.


Of course I do not condone their behaviour, I have also witnessed similar situations and also find it very distressing and have not known what to do. Having reflected on it (because of this thread, thank you OP-er), now I think I would try to treat both the parent and the child with some empathy and compassion, and recognise that the reason this is happening is due to poor education and lack of resources on the parent's part. Having said that, calling the police I think IS the right thing to do, mainly as a route to the family being linked up with social services, who can put some support systems in place as well as monitor the child's welfare. (Telling the parent off isn't going to change their behaviour - much more sustained support and guidance is needed, which you as a passer-by simply cannot provide.)


It is of course a judgement call that you have to make on the spur of the moment. IMO it is better to err on the side of caution and call the police, even if you feel slightly uncomfortable about it. The police and social services are very busy, and if the case is deemed to be low-risk, then it will probably be closed quickly and end of story. On the other hand, it could turn out to have been an important intervention in the life of some unfortunate little kid.


Claire

But the person hitting the child isn't going to hang around waiting for the police to turn up are they ?

I so wish I knew what to do in these circumstances .... I wonder if NSPPC has advice ?

( must check )

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking rahrahrah. Again another stereotypical comment on this forum that argues poor parents=bad parents. THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!! And inadequate housing and not much money doesn't mean good parenting comes lower in the priority list. If anything it's higher because if things go wrong they can't throw money at the problem. Do not conflate abuse towards children to social status! Also poor=badly educated isn't true- not everyone who is intelligent is wealthy, or has children only if they can afford a nice house and private school, and that doesn't make their decision to have children any worse than the Mum's who have kids as trophys and then end up resenting their kids, and their husbands and their lives! Wealthy definitely does not equal intelligent that's for sure!


Sheesh, what a typical ED response!


I think different cultures do treat discipline differently, and that is abit of a problem as to what to do about it. But the situation that the OP talks of sounds incredibly distressing and indeed abusive. I probably would have gone home and cried if I saw that. Once I saw a little girl being emotionally abused by her mother and older sister- it was real bullying. I kept trying to catch the little girls eye to see if she could see I was there and wanted to help her but I couldn't. I would really have liked to have called social services, it felt deep down in my heart that something very wrong was going on there. I didn't however, but I haven't forgotten about that little girl since that incident.


Abuse is different to discipline and I think what you should do, whether you feel you can or not, calls for your gut instinct.

Thanks to everyone who has posted, and you have given me more confidence next time.

I would stand there and call the saferneighboourhoodteam or 999 depending upon time and extent of abuse, and would follow parents / abuser if they left the scene to wherever, if possible.

Some one I am very close to was emotionally abused by their parents from about 4 onwards - he was placed in an orphanage where he was the only child speaking English as well as a European language, at 4 years was translating for his peers. Both parents were alive, professional people and wealthy.


He lived in this home for 3 years, but saw his parents every few weekends when about 7 years old. Later returned to live

with his parents and his mother as he grew older alternated treating him as a surrogate husband and an unpaid servant.

Needless to say that he ended up in Maudsley for about 9 months and still suffers from mental illness. It took him over 40 years to admitt that he was emotionally abused and at times still suffers guilt from his actions as a young person.

He always stated that if he was hit - he could have bourne the pain, but emotional abuse had long standing repercussions

and the scar is still there and so is the mental fraility.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Last week we had no water for over 24 hours and very little support from Thames Water when we called - had to fight for water to be delivered, even to priority homes. Strongly suggest you contact [email protected] as she was arranging a meeting with TW to discuss the abysmal service
    • The is very low water pressure in the middle of Friern Road this morning.
    • I think mostly those are related to the same "issues". In my experience, it's difficult using the pin when reporting problems, especially if you're on a mobile... There's two obvious leaks in that stretch and has been for sometime one of them apparently being sewer flooding 😱  
    • BBC Homepage Skip to content Accessibility Help EFor you Notifications More menu Search BBC                     BBC News Menu   UK England N. Ireland Scotland Alba Wales Cymru Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey Local News Vets under corporate pressure to increase revenue, BBC told   Image source,Getty Images ByRichard Bilton, BBC Panorama and Ben Milne, BBC News Published 2 hours ago Vets have told BBC Panorama they feel under increasing pressure to make money for the big companies that employ them - and worry about the costly financial impact on pet owners. Prices charged by UK vets rose by 63% between 2016 and 2023, external, and the government's competition regulator has questioned whether the pet-care market - as it stands - is giving customers value for money. One anonymous vet, who works for the UK's largest vet care provider, IVC Evidensia, said that the company has introduced a new monitoring system that could encourage vets to offer pet owners costly tests and treatment options. A spokesperson for IVC told Panorama: "The group's vets and vet nurses never prioritise revenue or transaction value over and above the welfare of the animal in their care." More than half of all UK households are thought to own a pet, external. Over the past few months, hundreds of pet owners have contacted BBC Your Voice with concerns about vet bills. One person said they had paid £5,600 for 18 hours of vet-care for their pet: "I would have paid anything to save him but felt afterwards we had been taken advantage of." Another described how their dog had undergone numerous blood tests and scans: "At the end of the treatment we were none the wiser about her illness and we were presented with a bill of £13,000."   Image caption, UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024, according to the CMA Mounting concerns over whether pet owners are receiving a fair deal prompted a formal investigation by government watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). In a provisional report, external at the end of last year, it identified several issues: Whether vet companies are being transparent about the ownership of individual practices and whether pet owners have enough information about pricing The concentration of vet practices and clinics in the hands of six companies - these now control 60% of the UK's pet-care market Whether this concentration has led to less market competition and allowed some vet care companies to make excess profits 'Hitting targets' A vet, who leads one of IVC's surgeries (and who does not want to be identified because they fear they could lose their job), has shared a new internal document with Panorama. The document uses a colour code to compare the company's UK-wide tests and treatment options and states that it is intended to help staff improve clinical care. It lists key performance indicators in categories that include average sales per patient, X-rays, ultrasound and lab tests. The vet is worried about the new policy: "We will have meetings every month, where one of the area teams will ask you how many blood tests, X-rays and ultrasounds you're doing." If a category is marked in green on the chart, the clinic would be judged to be among the company's top 25% of achievers in the UK. A red mark, on the other hand, would mean the clinic was in the bottom 25%. If this happens, the vet says, it might be asked to come up with a plan of action. The vet says this would create pressure to "upsell" services. Panorama: Why are vet bills so high? Are people being priced out of pet ownership by soaring bills? Watch on BBC iPlayer now or BBC One at 20:00 on Monday 12 January (22:40 in Northern Ireland) Watch on iPlayer For instance, the vet says, under the new model, IVC would prefer any animal with suspected osteoarthritis to potentially be X-rayed. With sedation, that could add £700 to a bill. While X-rays are sometimes necessary, the vet says, the signs of osteoarthritis - the thickening of joints, for instance - could be obvious to an experienced vet, who might prefer to prescribe a less expensive anti-inflammatory treatment. "Vets shouldn't have pressure to do an X-ray because it would play into whether they are getting green on the care framework for their clinic." IVC has told Panorama it is extremely proud of the work its clinical teams do and the data it collects is to "identify and close gaps in care for our patients". It says its vets have "clinical independence", and that prioritising revenue over care would be against the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons' (RCVS) code and IVC policy. Vets say they are under pressure to bring in more money per pet   Published 15 April 2025 Vets should be made to publish prices, watchdog says   Published 15 October 2025 The vet says a drive to increase revenue is undermining his profession. Panorama spoke to more than 30 vets in total who are currently working, or have worked, for some of the large veterinary groups. One recalls being told that not enough blood tests were being taken: "We were pushed to do more. I hated opening emails." Another says that when their small practice was sold to a large company, "it was crazy... It was all about hitting targets". Not all the big companies set targets or monitor staff in this way. The high cost of treatment UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024 - equal to just over £365 per pet-owning household, according to the CMA. However, most pet owners in the UK do not have insurance, and bills can leave less-well-off families feeling helpless when treatment is needed. Many vets used not to display prices and pet owners often had no clear idea of what treatment would cost, but in the past two years that has improved, according to the CMA. Rob Jones has told Panorama that when his family dog, Betty, fell ill during the autumn of 2024 they took her to an emergency treatment centre, Vets Now, and she underwent an operation that cost almost £5,000. Twelve days later, Betty was still unwell, and Rob says he was advised that she could have a serious infection. He was told a diagnosis - and another operation - would cost between £5,000-£8,000.   Image caption, Betty's owners were told an operation on her would cost £12,000 However, on the morning of the operation, Rob was told this price had risen to £12,000. When he complained, he was quoted a new figure - £10,000. "That was the absolute point where I lost faith in them," he says. "It was like, I don't believe that you've got our interests or Betty's interests at heart." The family decided to put Betty to sleep. Rob did not know at the time that both his local vet, and the emergency centre, branded Vets Now, where Betty was treated, were both owned by the same company - IVC. He was happy with the treatment but complained about the sudden price increase and later received an apology from Vets Now. It offered him £3,755.59 as a "goodwill gesture".   Image caption, Rob Jones says he lost faith in the vets treating his pet dog Betty Vets Now told us its staff care passionately for the animals they treat: "In complex cases, prices can vary depending on what the vet discovers during a consultation, during the treatment, and depending on how the patient responds. "We have reviewed our processes and implemented a number of changes to ensure that conversations about pricing are as clear as possible." Value for money? Independent vet practices have been a popular acquisition for corporate investors in recent years, according to Dr David Reader from the University of Glasgow. He has made a detailed study of the industry. Pet care has been seen as attractive, he says, because of the opportunities "to find efficiencies, to consolidate, set up regional hubs, but also to maximise profits". Six large veterinary groups (sometimes referred to as LVGs) now control 60% of the UK pet care market - up from 10% a decade ago, according to the CMA, external. They are: Linnaeus, which owns 180 practices Medivet, which has 363 Vet Partners with 375 practices CVS Group, which has 387 practices Pets at Home, which has 445 practices under the name Vets for Pets IVC Evidensia, which has 900 practices When the CMA announced its provisional findings last autumn, it said there was not enough competition or informed choice in the market. It estimated the combined cost of this to UK pet owners amounted to £900m between 2020-2024. Corporate vets dispute the £900m figure. They say their prices are competitive and made freely available, and reflect their huge investment in the industry, not to mention rising costs, particularly of drugs. The corporate vets also say customers value their services highly and that they comply with the RCVS guidelines.   Image caption, A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with the service they receive from vets A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with their vets - both corporate and independent - when it comes to quality of service. But, with the exception of Pets at Home, customer satisfaction on cost is much lower for the big companies. "I think that large veterinary corporations, particularly where they're owned by private equity companies, are more concerned about profits than professionals who own veterinary businesses," says Suzy Hudson-Cooke from the British Veterinary Union, which is part of Unite. Proposals for change The CMA's final report on the vet industry is expected by the spring but no date has been set for publication. In its provisional report, it proposed improved transparency on pricing and vet ownership. Companies would have to reveal if vet practices were part of a chain, and whether they had business connections with hospitals, out-of-hours surgeries, online pharmacies and even crematoria. IVC, CVS and Vet Partners all have connected businesses and would have to be more transparent about their services in the future. Pets at Home does not buy practices - it works in partnership with individual vets, as does Medivet. These companies have consistently made clear in their branding who owns their practices. The big companies say they support moves to make the industry more transparent so long as they don't put too high a burden on vets. David Reader says the CMA proposals could have gone further. "There's good reason to think that once this investigation is concluded, some of the larger veterinary groups will continue with their acquisition strategies." The CMA says its proposals would "improve competition by helping pet owners choose the right vet, the right treatment, and the right way to buy medicine - without confusion or unnecessary cost". For Rob Jones, however, it is probably too late. "I honestly wouldn't get another pet," he says. "I think it's so expensive now and the risk financially is so great.             Food Terms of Use About the BBC Privacy Policy Cookies Accessibility Help Parental Guidance Contact the BBC Make an editorial complaint BBC emails for you Copyright © 2026 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read about our approach to external linking.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...