Nannies...advice please as to the "norm"

[ClareC]

I would be really grateful for your experience / thoughts/ advice on what the ?norm? is surrounding family holiday when a family takes holiday over and above their quota?

Our nanny has been with us @ 18 months, she is lovely, the kids love her and we have no complaints worthy of voicing.

Contractually she has 5 weeks holiday each calendar year, 3 weeks she chooses and two weeks we choose. This quota contractually includes bank holidays which we have overlooked and have paid her in addition to the 5 weeks holiday. Two bank holidays we paid double because she did work as she skied with us over Easter.

She has already booked / taken all her holiday this year plus one additional day. Additional day was paid and an oversight but the time hasn?t been made up. In addition she has taken 2 days unpaid leave.

We are taking the children to Lapland for 3 days, these are days our nanny is contracted to work.

It was my intention she came to work as usual and used the time to catch up on the kids laundry / bedroom tidying etc. All jobs specified in the contract but which do get neglected, not through any fault of our nanny but because taking care and running around after three children is incredible time consuming.

This morning our nanny asked to have a chat about holiday, with specific reference to Lapland and that this would take her over her holiday allocation. I said that I had intended she come in as usual and use the time to sort the kids bedrooms / laundry etc. She told me she didn?t want to do this as sorting their bedrooms is soul destroying as they just mess them again (I agree with her on that one and getting them clearing up after themselves is a bug bear of mine too which she knows) and she doesn?t want the role to be that of a housekeeper. I said I was happy she take the time off unpaid, she wasn?t happy with that because it?s not her fault we are taking the holiday. I then suggested the time was ?banked? for overtime / babysitting (which we pay her each month) but she isn?t willing to do that either. As a ?compromise? she is happy to take one day unpaid leave but wants to be paid and not work the other two, she says this is the ?norm? when families take additional holiday.

I would add at this point that we have never requested she does general housekeeping of any description, we have a dedicated cleaner, gardener and send the ironing out. She doesn?t do any housekeeping at our request other than child related as mentioned. She does empty the dishwasher, fold washing etc. I do most of the kids laundry.

The contract specifically states duties include kids laundry, maintaining tidy bedrooms (kids), light household duties and babysitting. From the day she started until 31st December this year she has had 21days holiday accrue that she chooses (she has taken / booked 22) and there have been an additional 18 that we choose (we have chosen 19).

Last year she worked 4 days per week and didn?t take any holiday other than Christmas, we allowed her to carry it over to this years (she wanted more due to getting married), carrying over holiday isn?t a contractual right. We didn?t specify any holiday ourselves last year either and tend to take all our holiday in the first half of the year.

I would be grateful for any guidance of the ?norm? in this situation. We have a good relationship with our nanny (at least I thought we did) but I am struggling to see why we should pay her to not work when there are contractual jobs to be done that she simply doesn?t want to do. I also fail to see how this equates to being a housekeeper.

There are parts of my work I don?t enjoy too, I still do them?..

Thank you

Clare

[redjam]

Sounds to me like she's in the wrong and you're within your rights to insist, if it's in the contract. But the nanny/employer relationship is such a tricky one - far more personal than a normal employer/employee. So I guess it depends how much you want to keep good relationships going, how strong the bond is between her and your children etc, as to whether you want to put your foot down over this.

That said, I reckon it's worth broaching again - she might be a bit more reasonable once she's had time to think it over. Coming in for a couple of days to do a bit of light tidying and laundry sounds a lot easier than looking after young kids in my book - she could probably get it all done in one day and you'd be none the wiser. Maybe give her a list of the tasks you'd expect her to do so she can see for herself you're not planning to take the mickey? I guess she's worried that it'll set a precedent and she'll end up doing all the household skivvying in future, so you might need to reassure her on that point. But sounds like you've got right on your side. Good luck!

[yeknomyeknom]

You sound very reasonable. Also you sound correct.

[ClareC]

Thank you both, its extremely helpful to have a sanity check that we are not being unreasonable. I genuinely am struggling to understand how she can possibly think this is a reasonable request or the "norm".

Of the holiday she has elected to take, pretty much all of it has been during term time. Our eldest two children are at school so we have been unable to use this time as an opportunity to go away ourselves.

That leaves us in the position of having our elected two weeks, with anything over that requiring us to pay her to not work AND having another three weeks to pay for alternative child care should we agree to her demands.

I would really welcome a nannies view on this one if there are any reading.

Thank you

[Jules-and-Boo]

hi Clare, there are nanny companies/ agencies - perhaps they could help?

[yestose22]

Hi

If we take extra leave days we give our nanny these days off as extra, last year this was two days, but this year it will probably be a week or more. Certainly we would never expect her to come to work on those days to do the laundry and tidy for the kids.

Again she gets more than 5 weeks holidays per year in her contract, and we would generally also pay for a few sick days per year if the need arose (despite this not being included in the contract)

you say about your nanny "Contractually she has 5 weeks holiday each calendar year, 3 weeks she chooses and two weeks we choose. This quota contractually includes bank holidays which we have overlooked and have paid her in addition to the 5 weeks holiday." By law the entitlement is 5.6 weeks or 28 days per calendar year if she is on a 5 day week - I am unclear if you are including the bank holidays or not and what you mean by overlooked?

You also say she went skiing with you? Was this included in her contract and was she paid for all the hours she worked while she was away? Do you have some flexiblity with her? Does she babysit, will she stay late at short notice?

You state "Our nanny has been with us @ 18 months, she is lovely, the kids love her and we have no complaints worthy of voicing. " A good nanny is very hard to find. Would she be hard to replace if you had a falling out over this?

[SLad]

If you are generally happy with her then it may not be worth falling out over this and just aim to run next year on the contractual basis so there?s no feelings that your generosity is going unobserved by the nanny.

That being said, we give our additional holiday days to our nanny for free but also stick to the contractual holiday entitlement.

Good luck. It?s horrible when these things happen.

Sadie

[Daydreamer]

Contractually, she is entitled to be paid those days but equally, you are entitled to ask her to do work which would include Child- related clearing up (but not general house keeping).

Our nannies have always ended up with extra paid holiday for this reason - it is frustrating but I have just sucked it up as being inevitable (and specified in the contract that we get to choose more of the holiday although we always tried to find dates that worked for us both.

I am an employment lawyer who has also employs nannies so see it from both sides!