Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Our valley is immediately south west of the Isle of Dogs.


The map shows the probable high water mark of the River Thames about 10 000 BC.


John K


EDIT 2011-07-03: More interesting thread title

EDIT 2011-07-04: Reversion to original thread title

Mockney Piers:


Have I got news for you.


There were no roads or railways in 10 000 BC.


The "about" file on flood.firetree.net is careful to explain the data sources, their limitations, and how the data has been transformed. As you can see, this is an inappropriate data set for modelling our valley's landscape.


It is not possible using this data set to achieve the same effect as using Ordnance Survey data.


However we can use this inappropriate data set as a demonstrator for some of points worth further investigation with more accurate data.


[1] Set the view to Hybrid.


[2] Centre the map to Goose Green roundabout.


[3] Change the Sea level rise to +20 m.


[4] There are now three stand-alone blue blocks. The clunky nature of these is explained in the "about" file.


[5] The blue block on Peckham Rye Common doesn't need any explanation.


[6] The blue block to the north of Grove Vale is part of the Grove Vale Depression. Because of the vertical scale intervals you cannot see the rest of the depression south of Grove Vale. However, if you walk along Grove Vale and look along the side roads you can see it quite clearly. The historical implications are for another thread.


EDIT 2011-07-06: Goodbye depression. There is a small channel between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road.


[7] The blue block north of Abbotswood Road is the demolition layer of Constance Road Workhouse.


[8] The whole of the land between Dog Kennel Hill and Red Post Hill is heavily engineered.


[9] Re-centre the map to the junction of Townley Road and Lordship Lane.


[10] Change the Sea level rise to +30 m.


[11] The shape of the lower part of our valley is now visible.


[12] The Peck/Effra watershed is now visible


[13] The Herne Hill Gap is now visible.


John K

"The blue block north of Abbotswood Road is the demolition layer of Constance Road Workhouse." Fascinating -- http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Camberwell/ tells one a great deal -- but... how does that fact make the patch in question soggier than elsewhere?

"[6] The blue block to the north of Grove Vale is part of the Grove Vale Depression. Because of the vertical scale intervals you cannot see the rest of the depression south of Grove Vale. However, if you walk along Grove Vale and look along the side roads you can see it quite clearly. The historical implications are for another thread. "


I'm intrigued - what is the Grove Vale Depression and what are the historical implications? Could you explain in a nutshell?

prickle:


The Grove Vale Depression displays itself as a shallow basin from which water cannot drain naturally.


I don't know what it is. My first thought is that there is a clay lens which has compressed a lower layer of mixed clay/sand/gravel. Further research is required.


It is too subtle to read from a map or a LIDAR dataset. You will need to walk Grove Vale and see it for yourself.


EDIT 2011-07-06: There is a small channel between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road.



John K

John K


Its a nice map that you have posted, but please could I ask you to give us a key? What do the colours mean? That makes a map really useful.


Thanks for your postings by the way - very interesting

Alex K Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Camberwell/ tells one

> a great deal.


So St Francis Road used to be Constance Road and the Abbotswood Road area was a large Victorian workhouse, later converted to a wing of the hospital. Very interesting. I wonder if the secret tunnel under the railway line still exists??

John K - on drainage north of Grove Vale:


Greenwood's map of 1830 seems to show a stream running along what is now Bellenden Rd - see here http://www.motco.com/map/81003/


Zooming in, it seems to show a number of bridges e.g. with what is probably Maxted Rd


http://www.motco.com/map/81003/SeriesSearchPlatesFulla.asp?mode=query&artist=385&other=753&x=11&y=11


and


http://www.motco.com/map/81003/SeriesSearchPlatesFullb.asp?mode=query&artist=385&other=752&x=11&y=11

mikeb:


I've merged the two relevant 1820 map tiles and removed the overlap.


Either the 1820 map is not to scale or whoever scanned it introduced an East-West distortion.


Nevertheless the adjusted overlay is accurate to within a few yards.


The discontinuous drainage ditch goes Northerly from the edge of the depression.


John K

Great overlay - I think the accuracy of the map is pretty good for its time. (incidentally, I thought the 1820 map didn't extend this far south - was that a typo? http://users.bathspa.ac.uk/greenwood/map_i7m.html)


Looking closely, the field boundary cutting across Marsden and Muschamp Roads reminds me of this discussion about Marsden Road and subsidence: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,28744,29112#msg-29112


A shame Macroban isn't still around - she would have enjoyed this.


[edited twice to include correct link to the old thread]

Thanks MikeB,


I think it's now clarified as an artefact of urbanisation.


I've put some blue arrows following the contours on the 1856 Water Map. This shows the likely natural drainage line. I've not done an overlay but it looks like the arrows join up with the drainage ditch on the 1820 map.


John K

The County Series has contours. I have marked the 50' contour in red. There is a "channel" in the back gardens between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road.


That looks like the end of the Grove Vale Depression that I have known and loved for 40 years.


John K

  • 1 month later...

And the reason Highshore Road is called Highshore Road?

Just askin'.

Actually I seem to remember going on a Peckham Society walk and whoever was leading - Peter Frost probably - said Highshore Road was so called because if the Thames were to flood it would not get higher than High Shore.


Or maybe he didn't.

It's quite plausible that the great floods of 1300 and 1649 (someone check these dates) reached as far as the old Thames river bank near Highshore Road. Nineteenth century floods only seem to have reached as far as the canal basin.


I don't know much about Peckham history. Whichever of us who sees Peter next can ask him about his sources(s).


John K

John Beasley very kindly took a photograph of the old stream bed for me.


Unfortunately there's too much foliage. We need a winter-time photo.


But I still think the photo is worth sharing as it is an unusual/unique view of this part of East Dulwich.


John K

  • 1 month later...

Plenty of digging going on at the moment in this area for the gas mains - might reveal something interesting about the history of the terrain


http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,757322,757322#msg-757322

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • OOOOooooOOOooohhhHHHHHH 👜 👜 👜 
    • That's actually why the Sherlock Holmes stories were so popular. There was so little crime people found it exciting to imagine robberies and murders happening in London.
    • Yes, because of course there were no violent robberies in the olden days. Pretty much no crime happened at all I believe through the entire Victorian era.
    • Hi all, Im a Southwark council leaseholder and live downstairs in a ground floor flat, there is one flat above me, it's a house with individual front doors leading from the street into the shared pathway. My neighbour told me he has had a ring doorbell installed, no discussion as to how I would feel being on camera everytime I go in and out or in my front garden. I was told it's only for deliveries and doesn't record and only activates when pressed, however I don't know this and I feel really uncomfortable everytime I'm out in garden or on doorstep talking to people. Everytime I walk in/out, it lights up and in the eve it has a  infra red  light. Now I've read up that as he said its only for deliveries, he could set it so it only activates when pressed, however it activates with its motion sensor. Had he said to me about getting it installed, I could have had the opportunity to ask about it recording etc but nothing except it's being installed and when I arrived home it was there. I don't like being horrible to people however I feel I have not been considered in his decision and I feel very uncomfortable as, some times I have to stand on doorstep to get signal for my mobile and I really don't like the idea of being watched and listened to. Has anyone got any advice as I'm beginning to get angry as I've asked about it once and was told it only activates when pressed. I believe this is not true. I know southwark council say you need to ask permission to make sure the neighbours are OK with it, I don't really want to go down that road but I don't know how to approach the subject again. They also put a shed approx 3 foot from my back room window, these places are built so my window faces their rear garden and there upstairs window  faces mine. They said it's there temporarily, that was over a year ago and it does affect the light, plus I'm hoping to sell up soon and the view from window is mainly a dark brown shed. When I've mentioned this, I was told they have no where else to put it, whereas originally they said its only temporary, Also the floorboards above are bare and I get woke early morning and at night, the thudding is so bad my light shakes and window rattles, so I mentioned this and asked if they have rugs, I was told when they get the boards re sanded they will get rugs, I should have asked if they could get rugs and just take them up when boards being done, which I would have done had it been me living above someone, their attitude was I can just put up with it until they are ready. so they had the floor boards done, and the workmen was hammering screws, yes screws, in the floorboards, I spoke to workmen to ask how much longer and they said yes, are using screws to make less noise! I could hear the cordless screwdriver, not an issue but for every screw there were at least 8 whacks, the owners had gone out to avoid the noise  so I  spoke to workmen as the noise was unbearable, the sanding, not an issue at all, people need to get things done to their home and I'm fine that on occasions there will be temporary noise. now I have a nice crack on my bedroom ceiling, I mentioned this to owner but no response, he said there were alot of loose floorboards and it will be much better now, not so noisy, as though I don't know the difference between squeaking floor boards and thudding, and nothing was mentioned re the crack or that they now have rugs, which if it were me, I'd be trying to resolve the issue so we can get on with feeling happy in our homes. so I'm feeling it's a total lack of consideration. these places are old and Edwardian and I've lived here over 40 years, had 4 different neighbours and it's only now the noise of thudding is really bad and the people before had floorboards but nothing like this. As you can probably tell I'm really wound up and I don't want to end up exploding at them, I've always got on with neighbours and always said if there's a problem with my dog, pls let me know, always tell me, however I feel it's got to the point where I say something and I'm fobbed off. I know I should tell them but I'm angry, perhaps I should write them a letter. Any suggestions greatly appreciated and thank you for reading my rant. 
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...