Drilling and knocking nails into rock hard walls - tips please

[malumbu]

For some reason in the 1930s they used a thin layer of plaster, and underneath rock hard sand and cement.

On interior non-supporting walls a soft breeze substance was then the bulk.

So masonry nails bend, drill bits dull, and when you get past the cement the drill then goes all over the place.

I've drilled out, and then put a wooden plug in which can then take a nail, say for hanging pictures.

Accurately drilling say to put up shelves is a nightmare, both due to the bit slipping, or not going in at 90 degrees.

Googled too, but maybe I am not doing a specific enough search

Obvious thing is to get an even better drill, and top of the range masonry bit. Banging nails in doesn't seem to be an option.

Serious suggestions only - not 'move house' or 'bring a man in'

[rendelharris]

It's a bit of a faff but I've had good results using a good masonry bit, drilling a hole (with another bit) in a scrap of 2x1, tacking the wood onto the wall with long panel pins and letting that guide the drill in at 90 degrees. Trouble is one then has to touch up the wall where the pins have gone in, but it does get a good straight hole. Also helps to have the drill on ordinary settings to start then switch to hammer once it's part way in.

[DulwichFox]

Use a good heavy-duty hammer drill with a Smaller drill bit to make a pilot hole.

Then use then correct size bit to finish.

Always use quality drill bits. Preferably new if starting a new project requiring severable holes

Allow bits to cool between holes or take it in stages so bits do not overheat.

DulwichFox

[Angelina]

I have had exactly the same problem. Someone kindly suggested I use a hammer and a screwdriver, which I did and it worked.

Basically, hammer the screwdriver into the wall. It gave nice clean holes - started off with the drill to make a groove so it didn't slip. It took a bit of effort (a lot actually as I'm not really built for such things) but I have managed to put up all of my curtains and even shelves in the kitchen.

it completely bust my screwdriver in the process. You have to take it out quite often so it doesn't get jammed in.

[malumbu]

Best quality bits and drill DF? Prices have come down but so has quality (from Screwfix user reviews). The masonry bits I bought in the past used to come with free resharpening. The throwaway world is not the fault of the Chinese manufacturers - they just provide the product at the quality we demand, for this sort of thing poor!

[fishbiscuits]

I tend to agree with DF that the smaller guide hole, with a new-ish drill bit and a hammer drill is the way to go.

The problem I have in my house is that all the mortar seems to be crumbling, so when drilling into a brick wall, there's a high chance I'll end up with a hole surrounded by unstable, sandy mortar. All too often, I end up having to chisel out the (w)hole area, repairing with cement, re-plastering, painting, and finally re-drilling... then using an oversized 10cm wall plug.

Putting up a shelf turns into a three day project.

[Calsug]

I had this issue with hanging some curtain poles and took me a while to get it right, in the end had to buy some extended rawl plug screws (https://www.rawlplug.co.uk/products/lightweight-fixings/frame-fixings/kk-frame-fixings-short-expansion-zone/kks/)

Drilled through to get past the plaster and into the brick, then cleaned out the hole and stuck in some quick drying resin for good measure before putting in the rawl plug and screw. Touchwood no problems now but yeah its a total faff.

[wolis]

Malumbu, You need an SDS drill - rotary impact drill. Will easily get through anything including concrete. We have a similar wall between our kitchen and bathroom in our early 1900's flat. My SDS drill had no trouble at all. Can be hired from HSS or similar. You will need special bits to fit as well but if you have a lot to do would be worth it.

[malumbu]

Thanks all. I borrowed an SDS drill when chasing cabling into the kitchen walls, and had to buy a diamond tipped cutting disc. Even then it was hell.

Bally cowboy builders in the mid 30s, if they'd known that owners would have wanted to do minor updating 80 years later.

Still hopeful that there are some special masonry nails - you tube suggests putting them through a cork to steady before you hammer, I may try that too.