Youth offenders unit moving to east dulwich rd

[Sarah78]

James-can you confirm that this move is taking place in October- I can not see any information on the Southwark website.

[james84]

I think this thread has run its course

[Manda]

Ian R

Thanks for taking my point and re-iterating it, couldn't have done it without you...

[Otta]

Peace out loser - you seriously

suck

Is it just me, or is calling someone a loser, and telling them they suck, unlikely to help them in their efforts to "peace out"?

[Tarot]

Did someone say that they have actually started to knock down the Ayslbury about time, the biggest sxxxxxxe place in south London.

[peterstorm1985]

It may be too late to get back to the point of this thread but I'd just like to say that having this unit here may very well increase crime in the area, but it could do the opposite. As has been discussed on another thread, crims don't always like to be recognised (let's forget all the looters on facebook) so they're far less likely to start nicking if they think they're known. So there's a simple answer; if you see a youngster coming out of the new unit, try and engage him/her in conversation, make them feel welcome. You never know, feeling like someone thinks they're human not just lowlife scum may raise their self esteem sufficiently for them to consider alternatives to crime. Otherwise, if they think enough people know who they are they may choose to get on the bus to somewhere else before they steal anything.

[hpsaucey]

Ah- at last a NICE reasonable post - they've been gone some time!

peterstorm1985 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It may be too late to get back to the point of

> this thread but I'd just like to say that having

> this unit here may very well increase crime in the

> area, but it could do the opposite. As has been

> discussed on another thread, crims don't always

> like to be recognised (let's forget all the

> looters on facebook) so they're far less likely to

> start nicking if they think they're known. So

> there's a simple answer; if you see a youngster

> coming out of the new unit, try and engage him/her

> in conversation, make them feel welcome. You never

> know, feeling like someone thinks they're human

> not just lowlife scum may raise their self esteem

> sufficiently for them to consider alternatives to

> crime. Otherwise, if they think enough people know

> who they are they may choose to get on the bus to

> somewhere else before they steal anything.

[Alex K]

He drew a circle that shut me out

-- heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.

But Love and I had the wit to win:

We drew a circle that took him in.

Thank you, peterstorm1985, for reminding me that I can do better.

[solutions]

In my case also from my perspective of working with prisoners - when you actually meet and talk to some of them you realise they are people who have committed crimes/misdemeanours yes and many of them need help to turn their lives around - (probably not the best time to go on about disadvantaged lives) and the probation service makes an important contribution to their rehabilitation, support and plans for a constructive future. For everybody concerned, the offenders, their families and the communities they live in they make a difference to the outcome. Perhaps some case studies or stories of successes, even small successes, would be helpful to redress the balance.

[Beej]

About time, thank you Peterstorm1985, I agree let's hug a hoodie! I will if you will - someone has to change the way this city is headed, we've tried treating 'them' like 'scum', like 'rubbish' like 'lowlife's - why not try something different? sounds like this young offenders centre is a place where they go to continue their punishment. So while that's being addressed, maybe we should go all crazy like and treat them as human beings who matter, for once? And if that doesn't work, well I'm fresh out of ideas.

Btw I'm with DJ all the way because, hell, it's got to be a lot less stress on my heart being positive and open, then so pent up, closed and aggressive, no?

[DJKillaQueen]

Some nice posts there. I was talking this evening with someone about this and we agreed that there are huge differences in the reoffending rates of young people that are locked away in secure units or juvenile detention and those who go through a YOS. We incarcerate more young people than any other country in Europe and something like 60% of those incarcerated reoffend. Now they are incarcerated of course because they have either committed a serious crime, or have gone through the YOS and continued to commit numerous lower level crimes.

By contrast.....most young people that go through a YOS don't reoffend. And some of those that do reoffend once don't reoffend again with continued support. In my experience of dealing with around 30 local young offenders over the past few years, only two have continued to reoffend and they are now receiving custodial sentences every time they do.

YOS are not a 'one shape fits all' service either. They have different services targetted at different kinds of offender and anti-social behaviour.

Picking up on the ethos of the last two posts, I first became involved with young people one summer because of anti-social behaviour. I did exactly what is suggested above. I engaged with them on their level, found out what they were interested in - at that time it was mini moto's. Instead of telling them to shove off (like that would do any good) I basically started a little impromtu mini moto workshop in the courtyard...taught them about engines and how to clean the carb and tune it etc. One lad even decided he wanted to become a mechanic and decided to work towards that. His school helped immensely with gving him the extra help he needed with Maths and English. But we didn't have any more trouble from them and I had earned their respect. The authorities response was to send community youth wardens on walkabout once a week...pointless.

So I absolutely believe in engagement, community involvement. Sure, not every little rascal will respond and you have to be tough on those that continue to offend......but most wayward teens, given some investment and mentoring will respond to that......that is at least my experience.

[Chick]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The old toilet building on Peckham Rye would serve

> the purpose.

> Although tags on all of them would be better than

> reporting to a probation officer,the majority of

> offenders dont take notice of them either.

> Being confined at home would be better,and most

> tag wearers find it embarrassing,a little

> ridiculing of these numbskulls

> is whats needed.

> Stocks maybe,pictures on the t.v. Remember the old

> Police five programme,

> No special treatment, like clubs and things to

> do,they are not special,or deprived,just lazy

> thieving nasty gits.

> They cant even talk properly,so if they cannot

> pronounce the words properly how can they read and

> write,and if they cant read and write how can

> educate themselves for a better life.Innit get me,

Tarot, who has got the family brain cell this week?

[James Barber]

Hi DJ,

When you say the SNT ward panel meets every 3 months I think you are referring to the Peckham Rye one that you attend.

The East Dulwich one meets monthly.

It's composed of people who have expressed an interest in setting local Police priorities and thinking about solutions to problems. I'm sorry someone referred to concerns about othe SNT teams but the ED one have come up with all sorts of crime prevention ideas.

[DJKillaQueen]

Wow every month...that's very good. I definitely think that the SNTs make a differnce and encourage anyone to attend those meetings and get involved.

[large7]

Why do middle class white people always think they don't share any social responsibility? It would be a taste of reality for the smug media folk and their over priced prams.

Tarot, I don't know who you are but you come across as being as dense as the people you're attacking in your post.

[bonaome]

@Tarot: That should be, don't, and, can't, both with an apostrophe. They are respectively contractions of do not (don't) and cannot (can't).

[richardbach]

wen debate an argyoument comse down to descusions of teh finr points of gramr and puncutaion it is time to stop engeging and run away as fast as a roiter form sprots direct lol

[solutions]

DJ thanks for the interesting post. I think that many people are not exposed to, experienced or used to talking to offenders or ex offenders and the fear that is attached to 'what they might do' gets in the way of realising that they are people who have taken a wrong turn. I base this on reactions from colleagues who ask if I am afraid when I go into the two prisons I work in. As you say many of them respond to respect, genuine interest and an opportunity to be constructive. What kind of society do we want? If we answer that question we may get nearer the solutions. I think it is reasonable to expect that we want a peaceful,productive society with people using the talents they were born with or can develop - idealistic I know but if we have a vision of something as near to that as possible it will go halfway to helping.

I am interested to know what SNT means.

By the way for those who make sweeping statements about white and middle class people, I am white and middle class, I spend most of my working week contributing to society not only with a sense of responsibility but with passion and my appeal is for more listening and open mindedness. Thank you.

[Chener Books]

The maximum age of an attendee youth referred by a YOP or Juvenile Court would be 19 years and 364 days.

[NorthernPup]

Have to say, living less than 100 metres from proposed site I have no problem with this. There are plenty of units - social or otherwise already in the area, as well as hostels etc for a variety of ex offenders. We have to accept as a community the need for these agencies - so accept will sometimes be in my back yard.

[civilservant]

solutions, SNT = Safer Neighbourhood Team

Here is a link to the ED one - http://www.met.police.uk/teams/southwark/eastdulwich/

[MissNoodlesHats]

"The YOS is currently located on the Aylesbury estate which is about as central to Southwark in population terms as you can get. "

Well that's convenient , slap bang in the middle of a pretty rough estate. As for the C02 argument that's just desperate. It's just about keeping your electorate happy and in that sense politicians are completely amoral. That's what makes them so insidious. East Dulwich is part of the wider community and shoulder the burden along with the rest of society. And it seems to me that DJKQ is pretty much mostly 'right' in what she says, intelligence clearly helps her in this regard.

[sarahstrawberries]

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "The YOS is currently located on the Aylesbury

> estate which is about as central to Southwark in

> population terms as you can get. "

>

> Well that's convenient , slap bang in the middle

> of a pretty rough estate. As for the C02 argument

> that's just desperate. It's just about keeping

> your electorate happy and in that sense

> politicians are completely amoral. That's what

> makes them so insidious. East Dulwich is part of

> the wider community and shoulder the burden along

> with the rest of society. And it seems to me that

> DJKQ is pretty much mostly 'right' in what she

> says, intelligence clearly helps her in this

> regard.

Back in March I was picked to do Jury Service at the Central Criminal Court, The Old Bailey. There were 3 young lads on the 2 week case I sat on, one of whom was only 17 at the time (he turned 18 during the trial). This young lad, we found out during the trial, was (at the time of the crime, a year previous) on a Youth Offending Scheme. By his own admittance, during the year after the crime was committed that he was being judged for at the OB, he failed regularly to turn up at his YOS; on the Aylesbury Estate (the lad was from Peckham). Why? Because of the "gang troubles he ran into over that way". The story unfolded that he's a gang member, was on a youth offending scheme, but unable to go to his YOS because an opposing gang operate in/occupy the estate that houses his YOS, and this puts him in extreme danger. Apparently, the other gang members would await near the YOS for their 'enemies' to arrive. Instead, this young lad was forced to going to a YOS in Rotherhithe.

The jury found him guilty of the crime with which he was charged, at which point we found out details of his previous crimes: Robbery, possession of an offensive weapon, burglary, assisting a rape; and he is currently serving 10 years for raping an underage girl.

I am all in favour of rehabilitating these young kids in trouble, and in gang-prevention. Having, as a spectator, been involved in the above sad story, it worries me slightly not that the YOS in itself could be a problem, but that it could be a focus for trouble from gang-related members.

Sadly, I think that the aforementioned lad is so thoroughly wrapped up in gang life, and now prison life, that he is possibly beyond rehabilitation. He is, according to his barrister, of "limited intelligence". I hope that when he comes out of prison, someone feels him worth the time, trouble and effort to work with and help him to turn round the vicious circle of crime he's become involved in.

[richardbach]

mr babur is a libdem so best not trust anything they say if he is nanyhting like that vile ecxuse foir a human bean nik clegg all this nimby stuff is ecxatly what we wuold exp-ect from a libraljust like a kipper libral cuoncilors are 2 faced and stink thuogh their stench isnt fish but oportunism and hypocracy lol

[BrandNewGuy]

richardbach Please could I suggest you write your stuff into a word processing program, spellcheck it, and then copy and paste it here. I can't be the only person who finds it almost impossible to read your posts...