Request for comment: Collapse of the U. S. A.

[MissNoodlesHats]

"There is however a good novel by an Italian collective called "Luther Blisset" which deals with the early days of Protestantism, particularly the more revolutionary anabaptist elements, which is well worth a read.... "

Well well, who would have guessed ! A collective with its roots in the italian communist movement, a collective who grew out of an attempt to remain anonymous in the face of the information age and ever creeping political censorship and control w

ithin the media ! Anything interesting there MP!

NN.. Although a lot of what your are saying is rooted in a lot of good theory, despite the howling of wind from the 'local people', there is a problem I think with this 'art collective theory'. Watching the news from Tripoli last , whilst gun fire echoed around the city, there were some shots of young kids and adults sweeping the streets, bagging up rubble, clothes and anything else that was laying on a war torn crossroads. It got me thinking about the drive within human nature to survive and adapt. Maybe a lot of things you talk about will come to pass but I suspect we will manage our way through them. Changes will occur , this Forum and those who sail in her are probably even a small part of it. Outside of the web links however and books from educational professionals lays the grounding reality of the human desire to survive, and to some extent this may slow the wheels of your theory based armageddon.

Sometimes you have to ground these things in reality, stop listening to professors and tutors with their cool determination of the world beyond and get yourself on easy jet with rest of us.

"please fasten your seatbelts you may experience some turbulence, but may I remind you your last chance to purchase duty free is 30mins from landing, thank you and enjoy the flight"

[Undisputedtruth]

LM is probably watching Man U where Arsenal is currently being thrashed.

[Huguenot]

A sensible side to AFN? Shocked. ;-)

[New Nexus]

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "There is however a good novel by an Italian

> collective called "Luther Blisset" which deals

> with the early days of Protestantism, particularly

> the more revolutionary anabaptist elements, which

> is well worth a read.... "

>

> Well well, who would have guessed ! A collective

> with its roots in the italian communist movement,

> a collective who grew out of an attempt to remain

> anonymous in the face of the information age and

> ever creeping political censorship and control w

> ithin the media ! Anything interesting there MP!

>

>

> NN.. Although a lot of what your are saying is

> rooted in a lot of good theory, despite the

> howling of wind from the 'local people', there is

> a problem I think with this 'art collective

> theory'. Watching the news from Tripoli last ,

> whilst gun fire echoed around the city, there were

> some shots of young kids and adults sweeping the

> streets, bagging up rubble, clothes and anything

> else that was laying on a war torn crossroads. It

> got me thinking about the drive within human

> nature to survive and adapt. Maybe a lot of things

> you talk about will come to pass but I suspect we

> will manage our way through them. Changes will

> occur , this Forum and those who sail in her are

> probably even a small part of it. Outside of the

> web links however and books from educational

> professionals lays the grounding reality of the

> human desire to survive, and to some extent this

> may slow the wheels of your theory based

> armageddon.

I am not really in the Armageddon club, it?s more like, big change club, get ready.

When the USSR went through it?s big change, it had external help and internal resilience.

The west has a just in time system, this is not helpful during a time of change.

Good reference, Reinventing Collapse by Dmitry Orlov

[iamhere]

Hello,

First time here in a very long time.

Loz, it doesn't cost anything to be civil - I cannot understand why people need to be rude and uncivil - you don't even know this person - this forum would surely be a better and safer place to share information, if you didn't need to worry about being attacked! East Dulwich is a small place - you could be standing next the person that you've been rude to - some respect, is missing in certain quarters of the forum membership and is negative and unhelpful to creating simply good discussion where people can voice without having fun, ridicule or rudeness put upon them.

I must admit, that I'm bracing myself for attack!

Iamhere. Peace.

[Frankito]

Iamhere, firstly, welcome back, glad that this thread was enough to bring you out of retirement. I di have one wee question for you: why do you single out Loz for rude talk...? Without re-reading 11 pages of youtube clips and rambling tosh, I don't have any lasting impression of anyone being consistently rude. I hope I haven't put you off...

[Huguenot]

It's an adult forum, not a whimsical self-help group.

If people want to make extraordinary claims about the fall of society supported by random fabricated quotes and copy & paste exercises from US lunatic fringe bulletin boards they can expect to get the odd 'nutter' sobriquet.

Claiming offence is just another way of some groups to stifle criticism. Several well known posters do it frequently after they've dished out a load of abuse themselves.

The fact that some of these claims are destructive, abusive, upsetting for many people, and intended to be self-fulfilling means they should receive especially rigorous attention.

[maxxi]

True but in the lounge there is always room for whimsy

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFZnQucbrZNys31XvVnD6DzC9z_dM-3z3jDB0Pw_ZvJds0HTUBUg

[Annette Curtain]

You tell 'em Hugo

http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/genImageCairo.aspx?data=YT03MDAmYj02MDAmYz1BdmVuaXImZD05NiZlPTQ0JmY9JTIzYmVjMWEyJmc9JTIzYzEwYzA2Jmg9RipDSytPRkYmaT1JVCdTJmo9QU4maz1BRFVMVCZsPUZPUlVNJm09Y3Jvd24ucG5n

NETTE(tu)

Oooops

[ibilly99]

Notting Hill was great I hope it stays peaceful ..

Paul Woolley, a one time fund manager, and currently head of the LSE's center for Capital Market Dysfunctionality (sometimes affectionately known as the Princeton Economics department) who explains why things are on the edge of a precipice. His message for anyone who thought that Irene may have been a risk: you ain't seen nothing yet. "The developments in recent weeks have made it quite clear that the markets don't function properly. Things are spinning out of control and are potentially dangerous for society. Only a fraternity of academic high priests connected to the finance markets is still speaking of efficient markets. Still each market participant is pursuing their own selfish interests. The market isn't reaching equilibrium -- it's falling into chaos."

[iamhere]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You tell 'em Hugo

>

> http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/genImageCairo.as

> px?data=YT03MDAmYj02MDAmYz1BdmVuaXImZD05NiZlPTQ0Jm

> Y9JTIzYmVjMWEyJmc9JTIzYzEwYzA2Jmg9RipDSytPRkYmaT1J

> VCdTJmo9QU4maz1BRFVMVCZsPUZPUlVNJm09Y3Jvd24ucG5n

>

> NETTE(tu)

>

> Oooops

I must admit that the best response to this is to most probably ignore it. I wont get upset or angry - what's the point?!

It's an open forum and there will be all types voice their views - this person clearly likes to offend.

I don't believe my feedback was an attempt to stifle debate - but to stifle rudeness only.

Thx.

[maxxi]

Did you intend to stifle irony too? If you want debate without the whimsy, the irony and, yes, the puerile insults then the Drawing Room is the place for such po faced grown-up stuff - here anything (almost Frankie!) goes.

[Frankito]

Iam, a lot of this stuff is light-hearted, I challenge you to stick around and to get familiar with some of us lot and you will soon see who the goodies are ie mainly me!

[Frankito]

Thanks Maxxi, I have taken that as a massive compliment :)-D

[Scylla100]

@Huguenot how can financial collapse be a self fulfilling prophecy? I could be so afraid of something I make it happen for myself. I can be scared of going bankrupt and then do something that makes it happen, but financial collapse is collective. I can and do think our financial system is about to go over a cliff, but I can't make it happen by myself just by being afraid of it. Can I?

[alwaysFN]

Glad someone stepped into help you H-NOT, 10 pages of witnessing you getting bashed around the brain box by a teenage revolutionary was getting a bit much!

[Huguenot]

@Scylla100, a general drop in confidence in the banking industry can create a 'run' on the banks. However, banks don't carry enough reserves to pay out to everybody and panic ensues.

This happened with Northern Rock a few years ago. The government had to prevent this spreading to other banks by guaranteeing savings.

So yes, if enough individuals seed the hysteria then it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[New Nexus]

Huguenot

Your arguments are floored; you are working on a misconception that financial regulations are being enforced, anyone can see this is clearly not the case. Financial rules are being flouted on a daily basis.

You clearly do not understand what QE is and how it works, and the inevitable outcome of its over usage will be.

If I setup a printing press in my dinning room and start printing ?20 notes, then start distributing these notes, it would be illegal, and the notes that I would have been distributing would be steeling value from the real money in circulation. This is what QE does.

They cannot print into being money quick enough via fractional lending, they have to deploy this scam.

Every time they print money via QE, the money in your pocket becomes worth a little less, inflation is when goods and services go up in price, deflating your currency using QE makes it look like inflation. QE is a stealth tax.

You do not understand what SDR?s as they are now, you do not understand the SDR has by stealth, been converted into a unit of currency, example IMF effectively printing into being $250 billion. The SDR of 1969 is not the SDR of 2011.

Emergency measure after emergency measure. The financial-titanic hit the iceberg 2008 and everything shook, we are now taken on water. (please see current events) Just like the titanic only a handful at first understood the extent of the damage, as the pursers walked the decks calling for calm, and the band played on. It might just be time to start looking for a plan B.

Derivatives, once used as leverage and insurance tools are now being used to bash countries to death, the real WMD?s.

Can anyone tell me when the fund managers, banker and speculators are going to start to feel the austerity measures?

When are they going to see their services cut, their children?s education cut, their healthcare cut, their upward mobility cut.

Once again cleptocracy rules. Welcome back to the feudal system.

Do not take my word for it, do not take Huguenot?s word for it.

There is a mountain of information out there, please go and look for yourselves and make up your own minds.

Please all have a good bank holiday.

[Frankito]

Nexi, a very quick question for you.... do you work for a bank? Do you have any idea as to how they operate and how they are managed..? I challenge you to do some research on that front and you may just surprise yourself i.e. find things that go against your ramblings.. People who work in the banking/ financial serviess industry are feeling the pressure as much as anyone else; yes, comparatively we are paid more than your average school teacher however, 0.1% (if that) earn fantastical amounts, much as are quoted in The Sun on a regular basis. Without understanding how the banks work operationally, your views are merely one-sided and, dare I say, bordering on fanatical and obsessive.

H's point re self-fulfilling prophesy shows that he actually understands more about the topic than you do as, a fair amount of the massive upward/ downward trends in the markets observed in 2008 and since then have come as a result of rumour and speculation - both extremely powerful influences in a volatile market. Yes there is a whole under current of other bits and pieces going on (not to trivialise them) but seriously, the tactical solution to get us all out of this mess is for stability ie confidence to be restored in the global markets. Without that, we will all be affected, directly or indirectly and far more than we have seen to date.

Banks don't exist solely on Derivatives, there are many other products out there too so, to keep coming back to this alone is rather tedious and again demonstrates your general lack of understanding of the bigger picture that is banking. Perhaps I will dig out some light reading for you to become properly enlightened or at least better informed.

[Scylla100]

Here's the problem then. I think both Huguenot and NN are right to some extent. We can't all withdraw our money from the banks, it'll bring on a collapse. I think the banks are putting measures in place in a very quiet way which is trying to prevent us doing this. I tried to transfer my money out of a bank whose name I will not mention (not withdraw, just transfer) and I had to jump through a lot of hoops to control my own money, including answering a security question about my sun sign! I can definitely class that as a new one.

However, surly we can all agree that our financial system right now does not inspire a lot of confidence. In fact, it doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever. Money is trust, we all have to agree that the pound coin in your pocket is worth something otherwise its just a random piece of metal. Essentially NN is giving lots of reasons the money system we rely on isn't trust worthy anymore. For all of us that is very bad. The question is, how bad? And what do we do about it?

Scylla

[Moos]

QE = at-home money forgery?

No wonder Huguenot's given up trying to explain basic economic matters to the New Schmoo.

[Frankito]

Syclla, good post, a lot more balanced than some of our friends..

There are problems out there, that is obvious however the solutions they parade in the media, in my humble opinion, will do little more than exaccerbate the situation. In order for there to be a sustainable solution to our global (multi-layered) issues, we need to look at the grey matter more than the black and white at either end.

[iamhere]

Frankito Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------

> Nexi, a very quick question for you.... do you

> work for a bank? Do you have any idea as to how

> they operate and how they are managed..? I

> challenge you to do some research on that front

> and you may just surprise yourself i.e. find

> things that go against your ramblings.. People who

> work in the banking/ financial serviess industry

> are feeling the pressure as much as anyone else;

> yes, comparatively we are paid more than your

> average school teacher however, 0.1% (if that)

> earn fantastical amounts, much as are quoted in

> The Sun on a regular basis. Without understanding

> how the banks work operationally, your views are

> merely one-sided and, dare I say, bordering on

> fanatical and obsessive.

>

> H's point re self-fulfilling prophesy shows that

> he actually understands more about the topic than

> you do as, a fair amount of the massive upward/

> downward trends in the markets observed in 2008

> and since then have come as a result of rumour and

> speculation - both extremely powerful influences

> in a volatile market. Yes there is a whole under

> current of other bits and pieces going on (not to

> trivialise them) but seriously, the tactical

> solution to get us all out of this mess is for

> stability ie confidence to be restored in the

> global markets. Without that, we will all be

> affected, directly or indirectly and far more than

> we have seen to date.

>

> Banks don't exist solely on Derivatives, there are

> many other products out there too so, to keep

> coming back to this alone is rather tedious and

> again demonstrates your general lack of

> understanding of the bigger picture that is

> banking. Perhaps I will dig out some light reading

> for you to become properly enlightened or at least

> better informed.

Hello Frankito et.al

Why is it that only bankers defend their corner? I really am not trying to be clever (there's already a lot of that on here without me adding to it really)- but why cannot bankers be honest at least about how their institutions are flawed? I cannot stand another career politian or greedy banker etc stand up and lie about what they are doing is really FAIR. And saying that this is not a fair world is just nasty and not a good way about running a family, village, town, city and planet.

Thx.

[Frankito]

Gish, you have certainly come out your shell from your last whimpering post..! I don't want to hurt your feelings dear but I think your interpretation of my last post is way off the mark. Just for the record, I am not defending 'bankers' per se, my point was about people having a bigger picture view of cause and effect rather than clutching at a few convenient straws.

[Undisputedtruth]

Wrong Frankito,

1) the markets haven't recovered their peaks since the dot com bubble crash in 2000.

2) the lack of confidence caused during the credit crisis was because bankers couldn't trust each other.