card and pin cloned sainsbury's Dog Kennel Hill

[buddug]

I've just realised about nine transactions on my bank statement for cash withdrawn from different dates from Sainsbury's Dog Kennel Hill cash machines outside the store since July are bogus. I used the cashpoint there once about 3 months ago for ?10 and once on Sunday for ?20. Bank statement says I made two transactions on Sunday for ?40 each! A few other transactions show two on the same day as well. Rang Lloydstsb fraud, and first woman said it was impossible to take card details and pin, and I should ask 'family members' if they've been using my card and pin. I told her I live alone, no family in London, I don't share my card with anyone, my pin number is in my head only and my cat cannot use chip and pin. Has anyone else had a similar experience at Sainsbury's cashpoints? And is it possible to take my card details and pin from these machines. And if so, which I believe it is, why are scammers not using my card elsewhere? (although there are also three dubious transactions using all my details at a takeaway in Victoria I've never used)

[StraferJack]

no reason the card was cloned at Sainsbury's - that's just the machine they are choosing to withdraw cash from

could have happened in any shop with a card reader and pin-entry if it wasn't guarded enough

[buddug]

Actually, I've just realised I actually took ?40 out on Sunday at the cashpoint so what it seems to be doing is then showing two transactions for the same amount on the same day (as well as transactions on other dates when I simply didn't use the Sainsbury's cashpoints). What's that about? Is the machine faulty or tampered with?

[Damian H]

Surely it is well known that a Lebanese Loop can copy the card and pin hole cameras can be installed in machines to catch the PIN?

I am very surprised to hear that a bank is still telling people that these things can't happen.

[Loz]

The banking code says that "if you are a victim of card fraud you are protected through legislation, which states that you will not be liable for losses unless you have acted fraudulently or without reasonable care." That is why they asked you those questions.

Always, always cover your hand when you type your pin. The scammers attach skimmers to the card slot and small cameras to the underside of the top part of the machine. With that info, they can clone your card with the mag stripe detail (cloning the chip is still, as far as I know, not possible).

Ask your bank to confirm whether the transactions were chip-and-pin transactions, magnetic stripe and pin, magnetic stripe and signature or card-not-present transactions. If they are chip-and-pin, you may have a fight on your hands as banks still believe the system to be secure. For the rest, you should get your money back. Get back onto Lloyds - don't let them fob you off.

Either way, ask them to cancel the card and reissue you a new one. I'd also get in touch with Experian and Equifax and get a copy of your credit report (don't sign up for their expensive schemes, get the statutory reports (?2 each) from the links I have put on each company's name). The fraudsters may try to do other stuff in your name - these reports should highlight anything bad.

[Loz]

Also, having said all that in my last post DO check it was not you and you have forgotten. Especially with the takeaways, sometimes the address on the transaction is not necessarily the address of the place your purchased stuff.

PS Damian: Lebanese loops are a different fraud. They put a piece of plastic in the card slot so it does not return your card. I'm assuming the OP still has his/her card.

[Alan Medic]

BTW I noticed on the Barclays ATM on LL the other day that there was a sign saying it was fitted with an anti-tampering device. Is there some new technology available to the banks now to really ensure this? Just wondering.

[buddug]

It was chip and pin, as with all cashpoints. I didn't forget how much I took on Sunday. I know it was ?40 as that's how much I needed to take with me to Somerset to pick up puppy and pay breeder the ?37.50 for first injection. And I don't eat around Victoria station, where this other place is! If anyone has used the Sainsbury cashpoints at Dog Kennel Hill, do check your statements for doubling. I can't be the only one. I finally got to speak to someone else at Lloyd's who has cancelled my card and said they will look out for any 'attempts' on my card as of today, which will fail but also show up, so we'll know if someone is using a cloned version, if that's what's going on.

[Damian H]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Also, having said all that in my last post DO

> check it was not you and you have forgotten.

> Especially with the takeaways, sometimes the

> address on the transaction is not necessarily the

> address of the place your purchased stuff.

>

> PS Damian: Lebanese loops are a different fraud.

> They put a piece of plastic in the card slot so it

> does not return your card. I'm assuming the OP

> still has his/her card.

Thanks Loz. I thought the Lebanese Loop was the scanning insert they use to get the details from the magnetic strip.

[buddug]

Oh, and I do still have my card. And there was no reason to be suspicious as I was given the ?40 I'd asked for. It's only on internet bank statement it's showing two transactions of ?40 each.

[Supe]

My card was canceled last friday,i called to bank and they sayed it was cloned.I did use that card only at sainsbury's and foresthill road co'op cash machines that week.

[trizza]

There was a BBC programme on this a week or so back. Some security expert was saying that the majority of cashpoints still accept and pay out on cards with just magnetic strips - no need for a chip in the card. So cloning is really not difficult.

[Damian H]

Showing that banks tend to be bluffers and liars who will do anything to wiggle out of taking responsibility for the failure of their own systems.

[fleur]

I am aware that the cash machine outside of the forest hill road co-op was tampered with last Christmas,my friend's card was retained and used to obtain a large amount of money at various spots around London that evening.

[Loz]

fleur Wrote:

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> I am aware that the cash machine outside of the forest hill road co-op was tampered with last

> Christmas,my friend's card was retained and used to obtain a large amount of money at various spots

> around London that evening.

Classic Lebanese Loop case. You friend's pin was either harvested from a camera or, more likely, someone shoulder surfing. As soon as your friend left the scene, the nearby scummer would have retrieved the card (and the loop) from the machine and armed with PIN and card headed out onto the town.

Meanwhile, your friend probably went home thinking her card had been swallowed by the machine and not reported/cancelled it until next day.