Green Dulwich turns Blue

[McSweeney]

Crime rates? Any evidence for that one?

[PandG]

I can't believe it ! No-one has is taking seriously how these huge blue, green brown bins have ruined the landscape of ED - just walk around and look at the hideousness of them all crammed in front gardens and onto pavements. All well and good recycling but this is so over the top - lets take them back to the town hall!

[DaveR]

"No-one has is taking seriously how these huge blue, green brown bins have ruined the landscape of ED"

Not quite true. Some people are taking it very seriously indeed. I, on the other hand, am taking the piss, and freely admit it. Landscape? Don't make me laugh. It's a Victorian railway suburb, not an unspoilt wilderness.

[Sue]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I, on the other hand, am taking

> the piss, and freely admit it. Landscape? Don't

> make me laugh. It's a Victorian railway suburb,

> not an unspoilt wilderness.

xxxxxxxx

Just because it's not an unspoilt wilderness doesn't mean to say we should just stand back and see it further spoilt, DaveR.

Those people who are happy with having the area where they live covered in bright blue plastic have obviously got no aesthetic sensibility whatsoever.

If this was constant loud music noise, would you still feel the same? It's visual noise. And I would suggest equally harmful to people's mental wellbeing.

[Jeremy]

Blue bins affect crime rates.

Blue bins are harmful to your mental wellbeing.

It's an unforgiveable error, and the bins must be replaced.

I honestly can't tell who is taking the piss and who's being serious.

[*Bob*]

I think James could be right about the link between blue bins and the crime.

Every time I see one, it makes me want to go on a murderous rampage in Argos.

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blue bins affect crime rates.

> Blue bins are harmful to your mental wellbeing.

> It's an unforgiveable error, and the bins must be

> replaced.

>

> I honestly can't tell who is taking the piss and

> who's being serious.

xxxxxxxxx

Nobody's saying the bins must be replaced, I think. Clearly that would cost too much.

The council have agreed to order more appropriate dark blue bins in the future.

Other councils appear to have managed to take the visual environment into account when ordering blue recycling bins, by ordering a darker less obtrusive blue, so I'm not sure why you think this is such an odd notion.

[DaveR]

"If this was constant loud music noise, would you still feel the same? It's visual noise. And I would suggest equally harmful to people's mental wellbeing."

And I would suggest that you are off your chump. But lets just agree to disagree.

[Sue]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "If this was constant loud music noise, would you

> still feel the same? It's visual noise. And I

> would suggest equally harmful to people's mental

> wellbeing."

>

> And I would suggest that you are off your chump.

> But lets just agree to disagree.

xxxxxxxx

And I would suggest that you are extremely rude :-S

[McSweeney]

Mental well being? Yes, I imagine they've given up on the white noise torture at Guantanamo and moved onto putting the detainees in a room with bright blue plastic bins.

[Sue]

Just one example

I don't have time to do further research at the moment, but I'm sure I can find loads more examples.

ETA: Unless you're a psychologist yourself, perhaps you'd be better advised not to make statements about things you clearly know nothing about :-S

[keira_w]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

[McSweeney]

I think the onus not to make statements about things you know nothing about is on the people making the odd connections (crime and blue bins) - not those that are querying the connection.

[Sue]

McSweeney Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think the onus not to make statements about

> things you know nothing about is on the people

> making the odd connections (crime and blue bins) -

> not those that are querying the connection.

xxxxxx

There are statistics indicating the relationship between the visual environment and crime, for example the New York zero tolerance of graffiti and litter.

I suggest it's you who needs to back up your statements.

Clearly there are no experiments specifically on bright blue wheelie bins :)) however if we had known they were coming in, it could have made a good undergraduate thesis subject for a psychology student.

ETA: Too many variables to compare with another borough with dark blue bins now, would be much too complex to do properly.

[Champers]

'I don't have time to do further research at the moment, but I'm sure I can find loads more examples'

I think Sue, we get the message...but we don't have to agree with you and I'm in the camp of 'who cares?!'. The colour really doesn't bother me at all - I just wish they would be collected when they say they should be.

[Sue]

Champers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I think Sue, we get the message...but we don't

> have to agree with you and I'm in the camp of 'who

> cares?!'. The colour really doesn't bother me at

> all -

xxxxxx

But it does bother a number of other people, and if you don't care, others do.

Maybe you don't care about a lot of things, it doesn't mean to say other people might not like to have their voice heard.

[McSweeney]

Sue Wrote:

-

> There are statistics indicating the relationship

> between the visual environment and crime, for

> example the New York zero tolerance of graffiti

> and litter.

>

> I suggest it's you who needs to back up your

> statements.

>

> Clearly there are no experiments specifically on

> bright blue wheelie bins :)) however if we had

> known they were coming in, it could have made a

> good undergraduate thesis subject for a psychology

> student.

>

> ETA: Too many variables to compare with another

> borough with dark blue bins now, would be much too

> complex to do properly.

The point of zero tolerance in New York was to punish people for the little things (graffiti, fare dodging) and by doing that make the point that offences would be tackled. Not to make it pretty so people wouldn't stab each other.

[DaveR]

"Unless you're a psychologist yourself, perhaps you'd be better advised not to make statements about things you clearly know nothing about"

And I would suggest that a bit of mid-afternoon googling is no substitute for having genuine knowledge or expertise

But that's just me being rude again

[Champers]

Sue Wrote:

>

> Maybe you don't care about a lot of things, it

> doesn't mean to say other people might not like to

> have their voice heard.

Sue, sorry but you don't know me and to suggest I might not care about a lot of things is rather poor. I have, as others have, expressed my view but you seem to not accept that others can and are likely to disagree with you.

[Sue]

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Unless you're a psychologist yourself, perhaps

> you'd be better advised not to make statements

> about things you clearly know nothing about"

DaveR Wrote:

>

> And I would suggest that a bit of mid-afternoon

> googling is no substitute for having genuine

> knowledge or expertise

>

> But that's just me being rude again

xxxxxxx

Yes it is. I have a psychology degree which included clinical psychology, and have done postgraduate research in psychology.

Do you have a background in a relevant subject?

[Sue]

Champers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> >

> > Maybe you don't care about a lot of things, it

> > doesn't mean to say other people might not like

> to

> > have their voice heard.

>

>

> Sue, sorry but you don't know me and to suggest I

> might not care about a lot of things is rather

> poor. I have, as others have, expressed my view

> but you seem to not accept that others can and are

> likely to disagree with you.

xxxxxxx

You don't seem to have read my posts.

1. I did not say you don't care about a lot of things, I said maybe. Obviously as I don't know you, I don't know.

2. You have expressed your view, as have others, that you don't care about the colour. I accept that. However, a lot of people do, and I have also indicated that the visual environment has an impact.

Even the council themselves accept that, which is why they have a Streetscape guide which includes guidance on things like signage colour and street bin colour.

The only reason the Streetscape team were not consulted about the wheelie bin colour, apparently, is because it was considered that these bins came within property boundaries and were not part of the street environment.

When it was pointed out to them at their council assembly on Wednesday that this was not actually so, they have agreed to change the bin colour in future to something more appropriate, ie a darker blue.

OK?

And now I have to go and get ready for a gig tonight, where hopefully the atmosphere will be rather more pleasant than some of the posts on this thread.

Edited for typo

[James Barber]

;-)

[DJKillaQueen]

I think to compare blue bins to graffitti and litter in New York is a poor analogy (although the 'broken windows' theory has a lot of merit to it).

I think the real impact is no more than the bins look a little prominent and out of place. Good urban design is about blending things in the right way, and that includes the design of bins. Perhaps Southwark can be a bit more considerate of that when making decisions on the colours of anything in future.

The issue of how many bins (and size) though I think is a good one. It never ceases to amaze me how much packaging, waste and recycling I get through. That is perhaps something that should be explored to perhaps get us all to cut down on how much we put in our bins. And also, a family is going to need larger bins than a single person. Perhaps (although I suspect it would cost too much to facilitate) there could be different sizes of bin available according to need (and that might help the landscape a little.

[DaveR]

"Yes it is. I have a psychology degree which included clinical psychology, and have done postgraduate research in psychology."

Well done you. Have you read the research you posted a link to? Not just the abstract, but the methodology and findings? In your expert opinion does it support your assertion that bright blue bins are capable of impacting negatively on the mental health of ED residents to the same extent as constant loud music? Do you want to talk me through how you came to that conclusion? While you're at it, can you explain why, as has already been pointed out, you came out with this nonsense:

"There are statistics indicating the relationship between the visual environment and crime, for example the New York zero tolerance of graffiti and litter."

If you're going to make this kind of statement:

"you'd be better advised not to make statements about things you clearly know nothing about"

you'd better be on very firm ground. And it also puts you in a very poor position to complain about unpleasantness.

If you don't like the look of the blue bins, just say so. Trying to invest your opinion with quasi-scientific authority plus showing us your certificates just ain't very persuasive.

ETA - I have a whole load of experience of crime and disorder, much of it involving people with mental health problems, but it has zero relevance to my opinion on blue bins.

[edhistory]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's a Victorian railway suburb

Are you sure?

John K