E.D.Station controlled parking zone

[buddug]

The only reason James Barber is defending the scheme is that he thinks residents around Grove Vale are made of money. He is so out of touch with the realities of everyday life it beggars belief. I'm thinking that nose-in-trough New Labourite John Prescott who, when he was forced from office, stated he couldn't believe how high rents and public transport costs had become. Nor has James read the hundreds of posts on other sites from residents living with paid-for parking bays in CPZ areas where they're constantly booked for not parking in their bays properly, or are erroneously or rather bogusly booked or clamped for parking in their bays, or for failing to renew their yearly fees on time despite sending in the forms on time (and what's that all about, having to renew your application every year - surely only to catch people out and get even more money from them). Urgh. Grr. Frothing at mouth now.

[buddug]

Or in other words James, let them eat cake!

[kr988]

I've had a read through the posts here and am amazed. There is a bunch of self serving antagonists jumping up and down abusing councillors and residents pretending that they have the moral high ground on an issue.

I'm sorry you don't like the answer - but the fact is that the majority of residents in the area have looked at the facts and decided that they want a CPZ. Valid issues have been raised which has been constructive - but at the end of the day the majority of the people living on the roads within the CPZ have considered the pros and cons and decided it will make life better for them in the street they live on and are willing to pay for the change.

This should be the end of it - the idea that you can bully people into accepting what you believe is shameful! It is not the case that the council is pulling a fast one or the people in the CPZ "just don't understand".

[Bobby P]

Fascinating exchange with Councillor Barrie Hargrove above.

Councillor Hargrove rather gives the game away in his replies, namely that his strategy of only informing a select number of residents (those living on the proposed CPZ roads) is quite deliberate. This undemocratic consultation is what he and Southwark have primarily been accused of...

"any re-drawing of the boundaries which results in an outcome which(inevitably - either for or against) residents within the curren consultation area disagree with will be very vulnerable to accusation of tampering."

When he says "were we to extendthe boundaries of the consultation beyond the vicinity of East Dulwich Train Station we would be drawn into a massive consultation for a very large swathe of the area, particularly Dulwich, which would be unpopular and completely unaffordable, especially by a Council that has just received the largest cuts in living memory to its Central Government grant", he is also admitting the real reason behind this CPZ being introduced: the cash-strapped Council. Of course, he turns it into a straw man argument against a more balanced consultation (or even one that residents are actually made aware of...)

Finally, he admits that the CPZ is "particularly contraversial, fuelled to someextent by certain commentators on the East Dulwich Forum" - well thanks for the recognition, Barrie, and thanks to this forum for allowing proper local democracy to flourish, despite the Council's best efforts to hide its proposals from the majority affected by this. We wouldn't have even heard about this CPZ scheme without the ED Forum.

[easytiger]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi easy tiger,

> I obtained and placed the posters in the two

> community noticeboards.

James, you are at the Dulwich Community Council meeting as you wrote that and so was I, at least i was not posting on the edf and i was paying attention. Amazing how you have left off the CPZ on Grove Vale and Lordship Lane current transport improvements programme. You guys really want to lose our votes. And for all the readers, I placed the posters in the Community noticeboards not James. Spin it James spin it. And leave our lollipop people alone..

[Otto]

In defense of James Barber, I would like to add I had a reasoned and neutral conversation with him at the library. Thank you Mr. Barber.

[gsirett]

Self serving.....hmmmmm..... Maybe better used for a bunch of people who'd rather that THEIR parking problem gets pushed onto glen garry, ondine, Melbourne ( other end) or any of the other roads ?

Please READ the exchange with Barrie Hargrove..... Nothing to do with not liking his answer. If he'd said no, fair enough. He Didn't answer, he avoided

And one last thing .... Is The "majority" that you talk of the 45 people, in 3 years, who have mangaged to write to their councillor about this or the other 20,000 people who have a stake in this area ? your pre-conceived view of

what people will say amazes ME. You are a perfect demonstration of my issue with southwark, lots of suspect facts and a very strong motive

[buddug]

Otto, you can have a very reasoned and neutral conversation with James Barber, but he then does nothing. Zilch. Nada. And yes, I may well sound bitter, but it's true. East Dulwich councillor can I help indeed. He's all mouth and trousers, or all mouth and no trousers, whatever the saying is.

[easytiger]

guys, gsirett is spot on, you couldn't make this up. You cannot trust these guys, they could not answer many of the questions in a straight manor and infact when one trader from Grove Vale wanted to comment on the CPZ chair Lewis Robinson said quote " if this is about East Dulwich CPZ then i wont let you ask it".

Foxtons write 'welcome to your area', councillor Barber and his buddies say 'goodbye to your area, goooodbyeeeeeee'...

And to that one lady at the meeting who was FOR this CPZ all i can say to you is stop watching telly luv and get out there and speak to the locals.

[milk76]

As i have previously stated, i am generally in favour of a controlled parking scheme around the station.

I think that Some of the fevered no campaigners on this thread would benefit from taking a deep breath and thinking about your behaviour and how you come across to casual readers.

Cllr Barber has helped to set up a democratic consultation in response to multiple unsolicited requests by residents. Some may not think that the form of this consultation is perfect. That is reasonable. It is hard, if not, impossible to write a perfect referendum question. Some may not think that it is fair to give greater power to the opinions of those who will be most directly affected by the proposed scheme. I think on balance the consultation is quite well designed but that is irelevant.

You might not like his posts, his politics, or indeed him. However if you cannot see that he is bending over backwards to facilitate your ability to effectively register your opinions you are simply bonkers. If you have any common sense you would listen to his advice. I call that democratic and more power to you James.

[buddug]

And as for you, KR988, "...are willing to pay for it." What is the point of people trying to reduce their heating bills by turning down the temperature if they are to be hit by an additional yearly bill of ?124 to park outside their homes? Does the word "recession" mean anything to you? And do you want our local businesses to go down the Swanney? I personally would indeed probably suffer finding it harder to park as I'm in Oglander and commuters will flock here, but the answer is not to bring us within the CPZ zone, but to fight the CPZ zone in Grove Vale, surely?

[gsirett]

milk76 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You might not like his posts, his politics, or

> indeed him. However if you cannot see that he is

> bending over backwards to facilitate your ability

> to effectively register your opinions you are

> simply bonkers.

I have spent the last couple of years watching cllr barbers career develop on this forum. I've developed a strong respect for him, especially his foresight to engage on a forum like this.

I've lost that respect in the last 6 days.

JMes has shamelessly promoted a scheme, not discussed it, promoted it..... Whilst trying to maintain a veil of objectivity.

I am not a pro car nut. I hardly drive. I actually think CPZ's are a sensible idea. Just not this one. It's design is flawed, it will not add overall benefit to the community.

Once the ability of the people on the 15 concerned streets to park outside thir houses is removed, then actually what are the benefits/ negatives??

[buddug]

Quite.

[SplendidLikePeckham]

Just wanted to flag up this info about the petition which was posted on the other thread...as more are likely to see it on this one

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION

only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday

You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petiotn sheets)

Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION

And please encourage as many people to do the same.

SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station)

The VaLE Pub, Grove Value

Shauns DIY, Grove Value

Dulwich Garden Centre

Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY)

Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove

Therapy, Melbourne Grove

Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove

Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove

Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry)

[easytiger]

Guys, the petition or door to door petition needs to be signed be people living INSIDE the cpz area for it really to have an effect. Get that petition in.

[Moos]

Many thanks, gsirett

[gsirett]

Did anybody attend the dulwich community council meeting last night?

Of so, any chance you could post a summary here ?

[easytiger]

Admin, can we have a sticky for this please so that there is one thread discussion on this? More importantly though it seems there are only a few days left to get in petitions for this. Thanks in advance.

[gsirett]

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION

only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday

You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petition sheets)

Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION

And please encourage as many people to do the same.

SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station)

The Vale Pub, Grove Value

Shauns DIY, Grove Value

Dulwich Garden Centre

Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY)

Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove

Therapy, Melbourne Grove

Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove

Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove

Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry)

Please note - as well as signing the petitions, don't forget to fill in the Southwark Consultation here (click on "We invite you to submit your comments online now").

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/2280/grove_vale_area

(Admin. I know that there is already a thread on this subject, but I feel that (being such an important issue) people should be able to clearly find how they go about signing this petittion.....therefore would apprecite if we can keep this as its own thread

[alachlan]

Perhaps this explains how the decisions were really made; from the Southwark website:

"The consultation closes on Friday 11 November 2011.

The results from the consultation will be reported to Camberwell and Dulwich community councils in January 2011."

[gsirett]

I've just been to have a look at the signitures collected for our petiton so far. It looks like we've collected c.200 signitures in 24 hours, thats amazing, well done to everybody whos signed. BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

Southwark are refusing to tell us when they would take notice of our petition, they've also refused to extend the consultation by a couple of weeks (although have carefully avoided using the word NO) and haven't allowed us to use their own online petition tool. So,we have to fight.

We have to ensure that as many people in the area know about this proposal and (if they are in objection) as many people sign a petition as possible.

We have until Thursday night (allowing time to submit to southwark before their "consultation " finishes.)

So, DO YOUR BIT, read below and get involved. It's your last chance to stop this badly conceived scheme

================================================

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION

only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday

You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petition sheets)

Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION

Please note - as well as signing the petitions, it is essential to complete the Southwark Consultation here (click on "We invite you to submit your comments online now").

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/2280/grove_vale_area

And please encourage as many people to do the same.

SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station)

The Vale Pub, Grove Value

Shauns DIY, Grove Value

Dulwich Garden Centre

Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY)

Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove

Therapy, Melbourne Grove

Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove

Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove

Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry)

[StraferJack]

and remember people gsirret has started a petition thread so you don't get confused

And to make sure you don't get condused he's reminding you here as well!!

And if YOU don't sign up he will look foolish - as well as being a 2 dimensional, one-note character, he will be a DEFEATED 2 dimensional, one-note character. He has told the council that hardly anyone wants this and only 200 of you are supporting him!!! Come on people!!!

As I've said many a time, I'm against the CPZ but this guy and a few of his buds have made me hopeful it will go through. I'll be able to tell where he lives by the black cloud above his house

[bmu]

I am just staggered by this. It is manifestly not a democratic or a fair consultation and councillors' answers about having to expand the consultation hugely at intolerable expense if it is to be expanded at all are just ridiculous. How convenient for the Council not to be able to afford proper consultation. Let's face it, this is barely a consultation at all. Even the invitation to comment on Southwark website says the first area of questioning will be about "Whether or not you support a CPZ in your street". I got no further. No CPZ is proposed in my street, so what am I to say? A CPZ is proposed that will have a seriously adverse impact on my street. How are my views to be considered? I would have very serious reservations in future about voting for any party or individual that interprets local democracy in the way the current administration seems to. It is very sad. If only someone would just take a step back, and a deep breath, and say sorry, yes maybe we got it wrong. But no chance of that it seems.

[northlondoner]

Play nice, Strafer. No need to get all personal, an' ting.

[Loz]

Should the worst happen and this get pushed through, then I think immediate complaints should be made to the Local Government Ombudsman. I think that valid complaints could be made in the following areas:

1) Failure to consult with all stakeholders. Stakeholders are defined as anybody who has a stake in the outcome of the scheme or project. That means people in surrounding streets that may suffer a knock-on effect should be included. They should have been invited to be included in the consultation survey directly (i.e. invited in THE SAME WAY as residents inside the CPZ were invited), which they were not. The could also be an argument that the consultation questionnaire was designed to dissuade non-CPZ area residents to participate (the drop down box only listing certain streets).

2) Consultation need to be neutral; they should not presume, directly or indirectly, a bias in favour or against the creation or extension of a CPZ. The consultation questions and its associated consultation document are plainly biased in favour of the CPZ.

3) The conduction of the survey during a time of parking problems caused by major roadworks in the CPZ area, biasing the results in favour of a CPZ.

There are probably many more areas for valid complaint.

Should the ombudsman find fault in the consultation process, I believe the whole CPZ process has to be restarted from the very beginning. Hopefully by then either sanity will prevail, the TFL funding will expire and/or Cllr Barrie Hargrove will have been moved to a new job.