Forest Hill Rd. Surgery - Southwark CCG Response

[Zak]

We've just had a letter from the Forest Hill Group Practice to say that because we now live outside the new(?) boundaries within which the practice operates, we can no longer be one of their patients and must find another doctor.

A bit of a shock after 30 years! There's been no prior warning of this and we've got 4 weeks to find another doctor, before they send our records to the health authority. Had we been away when the letter arrived, it might have only amounted to two or three weeks!

Based on a bit of research, as far as I can see if you decide to move outside of their boundary then they can do this to you without any warning, but I'm not sure they can do it without warning if you haven't actually moved. In most other circumstances GPs are required to provide prior notification of what they intend to do.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Does anyone know if they are following NHS Procedures correctly?

Zak

[NewWave]

Look up NHS choices online you should be able to choose your GP-you haven't moved so to my understanding you should be within your right to demand to stay.

I wrote to my local MP regarding a similar matter-although they couldn't directly help (NHS=different dept) they did point me into the right direction.

30years and you get chucked off to another practise? madness- also look up the NHS southwark website as well and appeal

good luck.

I've been 8 months battling to move gp's the NHS is a mess at the moment

[Eileen]

I have been at the surgery for 45 years. A huge shock to be told I am being excommunicated at such short notice. Has anyone found guidance to an appeal process? At least to get an extension of time to find another GP.

[Sally Eva]

A GP can request removal of a patient from her/his register provided s/he has reasonable grounds for doing so and, in most situations, s/he has given the patient a warning. The warning must be given to the patient within the period of twelve months prior to the date of the GP's request to the CCG to remove the patient. The warning must inform the patient that s/he is at risk of removal and explain the reasons for this. A GP can still request a patient is removed from her/his register without a warning if:-

the reason for removal relates to the patient's change of address; or

the GP has reasonable grounds for believing that the issue of a warning would either be harmful to the physical or mental health of the patient, or put at risk the safety of people connected to the GP's practice, for example, practice staff or other patients; or

Have you moved house rather than them changing their catchment area? Ask the surgery to clarify the legal basis on which they make this request, pointing out the 4 weeks is a short time for such a major change, and if you are not satisfied with the answer I would raise your complaint with the Clinical Commissioning Group.

[Zak]

I've just spoken to a primary care commissioning manager at Southwark Clinical Commissioning Group ( 020 7525 9888) and she's going to get in touch with the practice to ascertain exactly what's happening.

If you're affected, then do get in touch with the CCG and flag up your concerns about the way the practice has behaved.

[ontheedge]

Where are the new boundaries, I?m away at the moment but suspect I might arrive back to a letter

[Eileen]

Sally Eva Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Have you moved house rather than them changing

> their catchment area?

I have lived in same house for 45 years...

[Froglander]

I know that the Gardens surgery changed their boundaries a while ago but I don't think they booted out the patients already there.

[Sue]

NewWave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've been 8 months battling to move gp's the NHS

> is a mess at the moment

I moved GPs last year with no problems at all.

All I had to do was to register with another GP and provide proof of ID and my address. I didn't have to inform my old GP.

Obviously you have to be in the catchment area of the GP you want to change to.

I can't understand why it would take so long or be a battle (unless the new GP wasn't accepting new patients for some reason?)

[Hare]

Here are two screenshots taken today:

1. for general information, the map on the Forest Hill Group Practice website of the new boundary that has been drawn "owing to a great demand of providing [sic] medical services".

2. the landing page of the practice website on which visitors are invited to register as patients - which by implication rather undermines the validity of the basis on which current patients are being told they are to be de-registered, that is, the practice services are in great demand and can't be stretched outside the catchment area.

By any standards of good practice, FHGP appear to be failing in their duty:

a) to existing (/longstanding) patients in only giving four weeks (from date of letter [25.9.18] or receipt? unclear...) to re-register elsewhere or be unilaterally de-registered from the practice list and

b)to future patients in continuing to expand the registered numbers, thus further stretching a service already described as overstretched.

[Penguin68]

It would be interesting to see how the local GP cachements interlock. I suspect this is a tidying up exercise - when those outside the FHRGP area are excluded that will free-up space for those inside the area but not registered (but perhaps registered 'out of area' for another practice). If other practices are doing the same thing this may simply be a shuffle around. There are arguably some advantages to this - where the practice falls in strict boundaries, demographic etc. information can be more readily applied for demand forecasting. Although I suspect this may be more 'in theory' than yet applied to practice management. As there are so many locums etc. the 'continuity of care' principle is already jeopardised anyway.

My guess would be that each of us falls into the area of 2-3 practices now, giving some choice.

[Froglander]

How far out of the new boundary area are those of you who have been told you have to find a new GP?

[Hare]

Me, just +/- 150m. - plus, have spoken to three close neigbours who have all had the same notification.

[Tigres Pride]

I too have received a letter & we are just waiting to see if my daughter & family also get their marching orders.

Just out of curiousity, have any younger families, say adults under 50 or with young children, 'received these letters?

[intexasatthe moment]

I'm surprised by how large an area is covered by the map ,but perhaps that size of catchement area is the norm .

[NewWave]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> NewWave Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I've been 8 months battling to move gp's the

> NHS

> > is a mess at the moment

>

>

> I moved GPs last year with no problems at all.

>

> All I had to do was to register with another GP

> and provide proof of ID and my address. I didn't

> have to inform my old GP.

>

> Obviously you have to be in the catchment area of

> the GP you want to change to.

>

> I can't understand why it would take so long or be

> a battle (unless the new GP wasn't accepting new

> patients for some reason?)

Our problem is the boundaries have shrunk giving us the option of only one GP we can register with -which is different from all our neighbours who moved here earlier than us...(we moved here in 2011).

In the 7 years we've been with them its been a catalogue of errors on their part, which have actually proved detrimental to our health. their ratings are appaling...We've been battling for 8 months to get taken on by the surgery our immediate neighbours are with.

nightmare!

[Dodo1]

Hi

You can still be a patient if you live out of area.

Tell Olu (Practice Manager) there is NHS Policy that relates to this.

[nxjen]

This is at the discretion of the practice

[Siduhe]

At one level, if this is part of an effort by the practice to manage their existing patient load better, then that's something. After a few months of better appointment availability, we've gone back to "no routine appointments available in the next month", so you either need to have an urgent problem which justifies an 8am appointment (I don't) or you need to find other care.

That said, it makes no sense to me to cut off patients who have been long-standing patients of the practice, particularly if they are still registering new patients. Why not just start by only taking on new patients from within the new boundary? There must be a care issue/consistency of care issue for someone who's been seen by the same set of doctors for 30 years and then has to switch to a new practice. And 4 weeks notice is completely unreasonable - particularly since a large number of people may be looking to switch at the same time.

[Pugwash]

We were in The Gardens Surgery catchment area when we registered with them many years ago. We are now outside it - only difference is that we cannot expect house calls.

[Tigres Pride]

Zak Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've just spoken to a primary care commissioning

> manager at Southwark Clinical Commissioning Group

> ( 020 7525 9888) and she's going to get in touch

> with the practice to ascertain exactly what's

> happening.

>

> If you're affected, then do get in touch with the

> CCG and flag up your concerns about the way the

> practice has behaved.

Like Zak, I have contacted the CCG and was told that, prior to the calls received, they did not know these letters had gone out and that they were contacting FHRGP to find out what exactly is happening.

To-date, my daughter's family, who live nearby, also outside the cachement area, have not received a letter.

I have just had a call_back from CCG and they say they have asked FHRGP to withdraw the de-registrations for now until talks have taken place.

They will let us know what their reaction is to the request.

[Zak]

Yes, we've also been told by the Southwark Clinical Commissioning Group that they have told the surgery to "retract" the notice, which they've given to patients who are outside their practice boundary.

This of course should result in their writing round to everyone affected and informing them of the new position. However we've had no communication from them and I imagine that's the case for everyone else.

Call me a cynic, but if they were to drag their feet for long enough, then they'd probably get the result they want - which is that people will find themselves a new doctor, thinking that they've only got a month to do so before they're left without a GP.

We await their letter!

[caz]

Just to say a friend who had the original notification has had a letter confirming that they're back on the books a couple of days ago.

[JohnL]

It's up to the practice I think

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/gps/patient-choice-of-gp-practices/

The issue is home visits I'd think (never had one).

[Tigres Pride]

Has anyone else had a letter to confirm that they are back on the books?

I haven't yet and it's halfway to the deadline of the 23rd October