Strike at the Ivy House

[peckman]

Dulwich fox/sue

May I suggest a charity boxing match between you too or something. Please let's focus on the matter at hand and if DFOR if you don't leave east Dulwich and go to the IHead it's literally nothing to do with you

[JoeLeg]

I have to say that so far the Ivy House seems to be the more credible of the two sides in this.

The striking workers haven?t publically put forward anything to explain the details of their complaints, which I think they should; if nothing else they have the right to be heard, and they obviously feel strongly about their cause. If they?re reading this I would encourage them to do so.

I personally abhor zero-hours contracts, and any establishment that seeks to avoid them has my support. I?d like to know why the workers and management are unable to come to an agreement on this.

[Sue]

peckman Wrote:

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> Dulwich fox/sue

>

> May I suggest a charity boxing match between you

> too or something. Please let's focus on the matter

> at hand and if DFOR if you don't leave east

> Dulwich and go to the IHead it's literally nothing

> to do with you

Yes, I agree and I have already apologised for posting on here in error.

[Sue]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to say that so far the Ivy House seems to

> be the more credible of the two sides in this.

>

> The striking workers haven?t publically put

> forward anything to explain the details of their

> complaints, which I think they should; if nothing

> else they have the right to be heard, and they

> obviously feel strongly about their cause. If

> they?re reading this I would encourage them to do

> so.

>

> I personally abhor zero-hours contracts, and any

> establishment that seeks to avoid them has my

> support. I?d like to know why the workers and

> management are unable to come to an agreement on

> this.

I find it a bit odd, because I had always understood that the Ivy House bar staff were in favour of zero hour contracts because they enabled them to fit their Ivy House work flexibly around their other work, projects and commitments.

[JoeLeg]

It?s true that many hospitality staff do indeed enjoy that benefit to a zero-hours contract, and I recognise that there are those who disagree with my vitriolic objection to them.

Certainly something here doesn?t add up.

[peckman]

Imagine. A long long time ago for most of us. . Your a dj,a musician , snow actor . A poet or simply someone who wants to earn some money when they aren't going out. Sometimes you call work and say you can't face it sometimes they say they don't need you. . That is life

[fishbiscuits]

So does this mean it's now acceptable to use Uber and Deliveroo again? Oh goody!

[Bony Fido]

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/ivy-house-pub-remains-closed-as-wildcat-strike-enters-its-second-day

[JoeLeg]

Ah, the Morning Star...one of the most biased and unreliable rags out there.

[Bony Fido]

How insulting! That puts it in the same category as the Daily Mail.

[rendelharris]

BFAWU representative Tom Holliday told the Star that negotiations between management and workers? representatives would resume today and it seemed ?very likely? that management would concede to the workers? demands.

Mainly because, it would appear, what the workers are demanding - fixed hours contracts and union recognition - were on offer anyway. It's quite clear the full story behind this dispute has not been made public yet.

As for the Morning Star, yes in terms of accuracy and balanced reporting it pretty much is on a par with the Daily Mail, and I say that as someone very much on the left myself.

[JoeLeg]

Bony Fido Wrote:

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> How insulting! That puts it in the same category

> as the Daily Mail.

Yes, it IS the same! I?m also pretty left-wing (in an old style Labour sense, NOT modern Momentum style), and I?ve long believed the Morning Star to be a waste of paper.

Just because it?s left-wing doesn?t automatically make it right, and it?s selective reporting of the facts in this case demonstrate why.

[Sue]

The Ivy House has arranged a shareholders' meeting on 17 October (I believe 14 days notice is required) so that community shareholders can ask questions directly.

Obviously there will be emailed updates before then.

[jimbo1964]

To be honest the dispute between the staff and management at the pub is really between themselves to resolve and not up for public debate.

The only update I want from the pub is when it'll be open again.

[rendelharris]

jimbo1964 Wrote:

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> To be honest the dispute between the staff and

> management at the pub is really between themselves

> to resolve and not up for public debate.

The pub's a community business, so for a start it's at the very least a matter of legitimate concern for all those who own community shares. As for the wider public, you don't think people are entitled to know if establishments they frequent have ethical employment policies, and to discuss the issue? Odd. If all NHS workers went on strike, would you say it's just a matter for them and the government to sort and not a matter for public debate?

[JoeLeg]

I get what you?re saying Jimbo, in as far as the Ivy Jouse is a private business and it?s true the negotiations are between themselves and the workers.

However, by conducting the strike publically (picket line, use of the media/social media) the workers have very much moved it into the public domain, as I?m sure was their intention (and they have every right to do so), so here we are discussing it which I have to say I think is a good thing.

There are plainly some conflicting claims at play here and thus far I?m actually not convinced by the workers, but hopefully the truth will out. In the meantime if this can be a catalyst for wider discussion and awareness regarding working conditions in an industry which still needs to do more to bring itself into the 21st century (and believe me it?s a big discussion) then that?s a good thing.

[jimbo1964]

Yes I guess there are wider implications. The problem I have with social media debate is that people (and I'm going to do some serious metaphor mixing) will jump on any bandwagon to grind their own axes, probably with chips on the their shoulders. It strikes (no pun intended) me that there are far bigger offenders than the Ivy House out there. So while there are still discussions going on between the two sides I just think it's best not to speculate in public as we don't all know the facts.. And for that reason I'm out.

[JoeLeg]

Those are some really good points Jimbo.

The speed with which social media took the strikers side appalled me as there?s no way a lot of those people could know all the facts.

[JohnL]

Switched on BBC News at 1:00 AM last night and Yanis Varoufakis (still titled former Greek finance minister ) was on talking about striking and even bringing down governments by striking. He thinks that's all part of democracy and completely valid :)

[JohnL]

Mind anecdotally I hear from pub managers - mainly central london that staff are leaving soon - come Brexit there might not be enough staff to serve in pubs (maybe we can do self service :) )

Seriously - pubs may soon want to attract and retain staff - I don't work in a pub so I don't know if that means more flexibility, better conditions, prospects or whatever.

[jimbo1964]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Switched on BBC News at 1:00 AM last night and

> Yanis Varoufakis (still titled former Greek

> finance minister ) was on talking about striking

> and even bringing down governments by striking.

> He thinks that's all part of democracy and

> completely valid :)

I'm all for sticking it to the man. But I wouldn't hold up Greece as a utopian example.

[Sue]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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>

> The speed with which social media took the

> strikers side appalled me as there?s no way a lot

> of those people could know all the facts.

And me.

[Sue]

I've just heard that the strike is over and that The Ivy House will be open tonight.

Good news!

[JohnL]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread but this link is a Wetherspoons worker talking about why Wetherspoons staff are now striking. There does seem to be a theme with hospitality workers recently not just single pubs.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/04/wetherspoons-strike-poverty-wages-hospitality-sector

[Sue]

This is on The Ivy House Facebook page:

We can confirm that we reached an agreement with staff representatives on Tuesday 2nd October and the Ivy House began trading again that evening.

We are pleased to be able to start moving forward together with our team of staff. While we have always recognised the importance of treating ​our staff well (and our commitment to paying the London Living Wage reflects this), we are also committed to reviewing our employment practices to help foster a strong and productive working relationship that reflects ​both our community values and our need to be a profitable business, and to ensuring that the Ivy House is a great place to work.

Union recognition

We welcome the chance to work towards recognition of the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union (BFAWU) and have been happy to move forward with this since some of our staff made this request on Sunday morning.

Fixed hour contracts

We have always offered fixed hour contracts​ to those who want them, but the agreement we've now reached means that all non-permanent staff will be migrated to a form of fixed hour contract which formalises the minimum number of shifts the Ivy House will offer, negotiated according to each individual's availability, and which will try to reflect staff's expectations of hours. This will take the needs of the business into account in order for us to remain financially viable, and our staff recognise this.

Staff migrating to the​se new contracts will be afforded the full disciplinary process that was not previously a feature of their working arrangements. We recognise that ​this process is an important aspect of fair working relationships and we also recognise the distress caused to the staff concerned, who have been reinstated ​pending fresh disciplinary procedures during which they will have an opportunity to respond to the issues we identified.

Disruption to customers

In undertaking these negotiations we have been mindful of both our need to rebuild relations with staff, and our responsibility to protect the Ivy House as a viable business which can thrive long into the future. As a small independent enterprise, the pub cannot withstand the financial impact of ​a strike without warning and without the usual notice requirements, and this meant we couldn't plan for the disruption that followed. We have therefore secured a commitment from our staff that legally required steps will be followed in the case of any future industrial action - although we very much hope this won't be required. We apologise for the disruption in trading experienced by all of our shareholders, customers and event organisers and promoters over the last few days.

We really value our staff and continue to see them as an essential part of the community and the pub, and we look forward to renewing a relationship based on mutual respect in which all parties have the best interests of the Ivy House at heart, and can work towards a future that includes both success as a business and strength as a community project.

With best wishes,

All of us on the Ivy House Management Committee