The Europa League...

[Laddy Muck]

...it's not so bad - is it?

[Atticus]

Gd for going to away games on a jolly, that side, it's a very poor comp, UEFA was much better format.

[Alan Medic]

Now that it's a straight knock out comp. it's more interesting than all those group games. Also it has added interest for United fans in that City are in it too.

[Jah Lush]

It's crap. Too many matches interferes with your domestic bread and butter of the Premiership. 17 games to get to the final. And what is also grossly unfair is that teams from the Champions League get in it after being knocked out. If a team gets knocked out of the FA Cup they don't drop down to the Carling Cup do they. Grossly unfair on the other clubs. As has already being mentioned, the UEFA Cup was a much better format.

[Huguenot]

Didn't all the formats change a couple of years ago?

What are the formats that were better?

I don't quite understand the logic behind the Europa League - it's a competition for the clubs that aren't quite as good as the best clubs, but better than the clubs that aren't quite as good as them?

I sort of understood the Cup Winners Cup - a competition for the clubs that do well in knockout tournaments.

[Laddy Muck]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> ...City

> are in it too.

Yes they are - heh heh. Thanks for the reminder Doc.:))

Other than that singular cheering little fact, it would appear that it really is as bad as all that then...:(

[Jah Lush]

Good shout on the Cup Winners' Cup Hugenot. I always thought that was a great little competition. My team Spurs were the first English club to win it (1963 when we thrashed Atletico Madrid 5-1 in the final in Rotterdam) and of course at the time the first British club to have won any European silverware.

[Otta]

Totally agree that it is very unfair for teams knocked out of the Champs League to get a place in the knockout stages!

Also miss the Cup winners cup.

[Laddy Muck]

Although I never saw the match, I think I remember that day, Jah (my brother and cousin are Lilywhite supporters). I vaguely recall them both going nuts with excitement over a goal by Jimmy Greaves.

[Laddy Muck]

Otta Wrote:

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> Totally agree that it is very unfair for teams

> knocked out of the Champs League to get a place in

> the knockout stages!

Excuse my ignorance, but what is unfair?

[maxxi]

Also miss the Cup Winners Cup (Hammers won it 2 years after Spurs) - things were simpler then.

To be in the CWC you had to win a domestic cup and to get in the European (Champions) Cup you had to win your league (neither Man U or Liverpool had qualified as champions in 1999 and 2005). I think not having a straight-forward knockout cup (like the FA Cup) at Euro-level is a mistake.

[Jah Lush]

Laddy Muck Wrote:

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> Although I never saw the match, I think I remember

> that day, Jah (my brother and cousin are Lilywhite

> supporters). I vaguely recall them both going

> nuts with excitement over a goal by Jimmy Greaves.

He scored twice in the final.

And the reason it's unfair when teams are knocked out of the Champions League and then drop down into the knockout stages of the Europa League is precisely that. It's like getting knocked out of the FA Cup and then going straight into the quarter-finals of the League Cup. Grossly unfair for all the other teams who have been knocked out on the way trying to get there. Once you're out of a competition that's it. You're out. You should not be allowed to drop straight into the later stages of another one.

[Alan Medic]

Well everyone knows it's about money, but how can anyone make money out of an event that nobody is interested in? Surely the TV stations will stop paying up if no one watches. They are now going to expand the Euro's to 24 teams I believe. Why? 16 teams is about right and makes it an event. 24 teams from Europe, you might as well let everyone go to the Finals. It's all overkill and will surely rebound on the organisers eventually when no one has any money and/or can't be bothered due to being overdosed on football.

BTW Laddy. Congrats on your new job on the tube.

[Laddy Muck]

@ maxxi/Jah

Thank you for that.

Just one more question: is it a bit like the situation with "play offs"? I.e., with play offs, is there not a similar unfairness within the system in that places for promotion are not necessarily based solely on the results of the 42 match season? I remember a great hoo-ha on this whilst at Fetcham Grove during last season's Leatherhead v Dulwich Hamlet play off where another team (Bognor, I believe) had worked their way up the Ryman League and amassed stacks of points only to lose to DH (which meant that DH ended up playing in the play off final). I promise not to ask any further questions after this...:-$

@ Doc

Too kind. Short-term contract terminating Monday. Chelsea had better win and close the City/United gap ;-)! Stand clear of the closing doors now...

[Otta]

You can certainly argue that 3rd place in the Championship could feel aggrieved if 6th end up getting promoted, but at least you know from the start of the season what the score is.

I just think it is unfair for teams to play a load of games to qualify for a knockout stage of a competition, only for a load of other teams to just turn up and join in after the hard bit is out of the way.

[Alan Medic]

The champions league used to be the European Cup, only for champions. Now both Spain and England have 4 teams in it. I don't see that as been much different to teams joining the Europa at the k.o. stage. It's a reward for finishing 3rd in a group in the CL and maybe ensures that teams play to win as opposed to not giving a damn and maybe giving another team an effective walkover in a crucial for them match. Clear yeah?

[Laddy Muck]

I think it's all beginning to fall into place...thanks.

[Mick Mac]

I like the Europa League. For teams of Celic's standard its a good way to measure youfself against the "2nd division" teams in europe. The league format guarantees 6 games and keeps you interested until christmas.

So i think its fine. Its very easy for those who support the top english teams to poo poo the europa league but for the standard of teams that it is aimed at, it is important and enjoyable.

As for the teams that drop donw from the CL, I'm not sure they have ever gone on to win it, although that might change this year.

[Laddy Muck]

Yes, but what about the unfair aspects as highlighted above? Have you not been paying attention?

[maxxi]

I think when the play-off system was introduced there was unfairness but now all teams know how it works and what to expect and it keeps more teams involved until later in the season than otherwise.

We now talk all season about being 'in the play-off places' so supporters can retain some hope of promotion by scraping in to 6th even if the top two are 20 points clear, it means there are two goals at the start of the season the first being automatic promotion and the second is acheiving a play-off spot. As a West Ham supporter I have seen us lose a play-off final in 2004 and win one the following year.

The unfairness with the Europa fiasco is that you never know which clubs are going to be parachuted into it from The CL (just as a club has had some great results and starts to believe it may win it they suddenly have to face Man U or Porto which means all their earlier games count for nothing).

The CL is itself unfair and wrongly named as only a few of the participants are Champions at the time the competition starts.

[Alan Medic]

I think that because all the glamorous teams of Europe get into the CL, the hope is that some will drop into the Europa and give it a bit more 'glamour'.

[Jah Lush]

Laddy Muck Wrote:

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> I think it's all beginning to fall into

> place...thanks.

>

> Sounds like a pile of poo actually...:-S

It is but it'll give you something to crow about if you can be arsed to actually win it. Expect Fergie to field the youngsters to give 'em a bit of "experience," just like Harry's done this year.

[Laddy Muck]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> It is but it'll give you something to crow about

> if you can be arsed to actually win it.

And crow I will. Have been crowing for the past 40 years...aint gonna stop now!

So: how did Spurs do today then?

*ducks*

[Jah Lush]

Cheap shot.

[Laddy Muck]

Was just teasing. Thought it was obvious with the "*ducks*". Obviously not. I'm sorry.