Secondary Schools

[Earl Aelfheah]

It?s quite a long way off yet, but I have been wondering what happens when it comes to sending my daughter to a secondary school in the area. Are there enough places for the number of kids in the area (there don't seem to be many options)? What happens if you don?t end up with a place?

My nearest secondary is Charter, but I think it?s likely that I would be outside the catchment (around 1.7 / 1.8 km away). The other schools in the areas are either private, exclude on religious grounds, boys only, or a fair bit further away (and I guess they also have their own catchment areas which we?re unlikely to fall within). The only obvious exception (from a quick perusal) seems to be Harris? Girls? Academy. Does this mean that in practice this will be the only option for my daughter? Of course it could have all changed massively by the time this becomes a real issue. Appreciate any advice from those with experience of the process.

[Mrs TP]

Kingsdale must be near you if you that near Charter also Sydenham School which is a state girls school and not to be confused with Sydenham High which is a private girls school. Look on the Lewisham and Southwark websites there are others hiding around that you just probably haven't come across.

[Ruth_Baldock]

We have the same problem; except Harris is out for us down to my own personal reasoning. We're Jewish, so don't want to send them to a c of e/catholic school, and we are too far from charter/kingsdale (in se5).

[Fuschia]

Kingsdale selects by lottery rather than distance

[sillywoman]

I've now got 3 at The charter & judging by where their friends live I think the catchment for The Charter may be wider than commonly thought. The furthest flung are Nunhead (near the Nuns Head), West Dulwich (near Elm Wood School) and Brixton (near the market), so the reach can be quite far out.

[Dorothy]

Oh really Sillywoman? That is interesting as in my experience, anyone living much further away than the very top of Friern Road (on the ED side of the school) is unlikely to get a place at The Charter School. How strange.

[intexasatthe moment]

Agree with Dorothy re catchment for Charter .

Perhaps their families moved after getting a place ?

[womanofdulwich]

Quite often there is the official line- we were 1.7km away and did not get in 7 years ago- in Spring , but by the end of October we had climbed up from 123 rd on the list to be offered a list. Plus all the people that for genuine reasons move plus all the others that have the balls to play the system- you would be surprised by the number of people you think have normal children pull out a load of reasons why they should get into a school. Parents getting divirced/ seperated and need the stability of staying with their friends etc etc etc.................

[Dorothy]

Yes, I am quite certain that a disproportionate number of children at Charter come from families who urgently had to rent very close to the school for a year or so and then wouldn't you know it find the perfect house to buy in Camberwell or Nunhead.

[intexasatthe moment]

You're right Dorothy ,and those people should remember that they're not just doing the best for their child - they're elbowing some other child out .

Moi ? Bitter ?

[FatherJack]

Bitter??

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[ontheedge]

Have heard Harris girls is really improving

[nunheadmum]

But given its subject focus, will Harris girls really be a good choice for more academic focused kids? As it's our closest secondary, I'd love to know how it intends to develop. I'm quite aware that there are lots of kids who may not want such an academic focus and still need a good school that serves their educational needs. But does Harris intend to develop into a school that copes well with both aspects or...?

It's a few years off before we have to make decisions so not sure what we'll be looking for but I'd be interested to know more about how it's coping on the more academic side of things. (I see their results are improving but statistics only say how many - not necessarily which subjects.)

[sillywoman]

Haven't followed the rest of the thread, but just to say that the Nunhead family did move after their child got a place (a bigger council place finally came through after 10 years of waiting - no buying a "perfect house in Camberwell or Nunhead" for them), the other families were in their addresses when they applied and are there still.

Dorothy; In reply to:

"Yes, I am quite certain that a disproportionate number of children at Charter come from families who urgently had to rent very close to the school for a year or so and then wouldn't you know it find the perfect house to buy in Camberwell or Nunhead."

Well that may be the case, - I don't know what knowledge you're basing your opinion on so can't call it really - but just to say that it certainly hasn't been my experience at all of the families/kids we've come to know through The Charter. They're just local families who live in the vicinity. None of them have rented or moved recently in any of the three years my kids are in, but it may just be that my experience is exceptional (or not)?

[The Nappy Lady]

Nunheadmum, I know a family with 2 girls at Harris Girls. One is in her final year of GCSEs the other is younger. They are very happy with the school - the eldest took several GCSEs a year early at the end of last year in subjects like Maths & Science. Also another family close by - their daughter has just left with really excellent exam results in plenty of 'proper' subjects.

I have some reservations but it is certainly on my list of possible schools & I don't think anyone should be discounting it (not suggesting you are). I'd like to see a greater mix of girls from local families there, but I guess that is going to take time to happen, I believe historically girls from Nunhead & East Dulwich have tended to be sent further afield.

[nunheadmum]

Thanks Molly - that sounds like it's able to cope with a range of abilities then. It would be nice to think that if the intake changes, the profile of the school will improve further. But I guess it's a bit of chicken and egg - do people wait till the school improves to send their kids there or send their kids in the hope that by doing so, the school will improve. It's a bit more of a risk at secondary level.

Although I suspect that, as with primary now, by the time our kids are at secondary, there may be little true 'choice' in terms of secondary either and, unless you get in via particular ability (music, sport etc) you'll go to your local school. Which brings it's own pros and cons....though probably not too bad for us.

Though maybe all local schools will be Harris by that point anyway!!

[DenmotherSmith]

For me the interesting point about Harris Girls is that their results in 2011 were the same as Kingsdale and Charter (all 66% GCSE A-C inc. Maths & English) which is very impressive considering that Kingsdale select 15% of their intake and as I read above many able/more affluent parents move to get their child into charter so they too are getting a 'selection' of children. Yet poor old Harris girls, no one is moving to get their daughter in there, nor paying a fortune in music lessons for a that elusive scholarship and yet their results are just as good. Must be the teaching!

I know a few girls that go there, all are local, Peckham, Nunhead etc. In fact I don't think you will find many, if any girls there who do not come from SE15 or SE22.

My son attends Harris Boys ED and almost all the boys are local too.

p.s. anyone with sons, who is considering Harris boys in the next year or two, they had an OFSTED last month in which they were rated outstanding!! They received outstanding in almost every criteria ( I believe all bar two which were good) especially their teaching, attainment and progress for all pupils was rated outstanding. Its not on OFSTEDs site yet but is on the schools.