new puffin crossing

[giggirl]

Well done; I think a crossing by the Co-op is long overdue and in a few weeks we'll wonder how we managed without it.

Mr Barber, might I suggest you install a couple of speed cameras in Barry Road. It attracts so many racers, who obviously feel that it's their God-given right and everyone should get out of their way. I think you?ll find speed cameras most lucrative on that road.

[DulwichFox]

giggirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well done; I think a crossing by the Co-op is long

> overdue and in a few weeks we'll wonder how we

> managed without it.

>

> Mr Barber, might I suggest you install a couple of

> speed cameras in Barry Road. It attracts so many

> racers, who obviously feel that it's their

> God-given right and everyone should get out of

> their way. I think you?ll find speed cameras most

> lucrative on that road.

That's the Problem...

That fact that they are Lucrative means they do not stop people from speeding.

Traffic calming is more effective than Cameras.. Whose Only purpose is to create revenue.

Fox

[cashewnut]

I LOVE the new crossings. They make life better.

[albert]

I too think the crossing will be a big improvement. Long overdue.

[henryb]

> That fact that they are Lucrative means they do

> not stop people from speeding.

That doesn't follow at all. They can generate revenue and reduce speeding and causalities at the same time - if say their effectiveness is somewhere between 0% and 100% - which is clearly the case.

Regardless ? they do lead to a substantial reduction in speeding and causalities.

http://www.racfoundation.org/research/safety/effectiveness-of-speed-cameras

[henryb]

The new crossing is very welcome. Pity it was not a zebra crossing.

[James Barber]

Hi henryb,

Sadly TfL buses blocked a zebra from being constructed outside the Coop - they said it would cause problems by being to popular with people using it.

[Worker]

Tell us how you really feel!

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's impossible for a person to cross the road, but that on balance a crossing between the two current ones is justified. For the elderly, parents with young children, the disabled, and unfortunately for the dangerously impatient who make the road more hazardous for everyone. Taking your argument to the nth degree, you could argue the crossing outside Iceland is superfluous because people could cross down by the Plough.

[James Barber]

Hi Worker,

It will only be a few more days before these crossings are working.

First started campaigning for them in 2006. You would not believe the hassles and problems - everything from formal complaints about officers who've since left Southwark Councils employ, Judicial Reviews, etc. Fingers crossed everyone will wonder what the fuss was about after they've successfully opened.

[Worker]

Sorry James, I was responding to another person's post describing some pedestrians as 'preternaturally half-witted or staggeringly bone idle' and suggesting they play in traffic. Forgot to paste in their message. I'm in favour of the crossings.

[David A]

Hi James,

Maybe a bit off topic here but kind of related.

There's a couple of threads about crossings where the argument seems to be about capital investment vs personal responsibility, so I've just got a couple of questions:

1) How much do Southwark pay for crossings on average? I've found information on other councils where the costs vary wildly from ?50k-?111k.

2) Is there a road safety programme in Southwark schools?

If you don't know, I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.

Cheers

[James Barber]

Hi David A,

Costing costs do vary wildly.

For example a Zebra crossing where lampposts are already in helful places would costs a few thousand pounds + legal costs versus the other end of the sprectrum with a raised treatment, new electrics needed could cost toward the top end of what you've suggested. But the top end would be very unusual.

Schools. Near enough every school in Southwark has a School Travel Plan aimed at making more sustainable and safer travel to school. Southwark also has some support services. For example the Heber School travel plan will see around ?10,000 of changes to Heber Road - everythnig from relining, building out kerbs.

Does that answer your query?

[David A]

Thanks James.

It does pretty much on the first point.

As for the schools, I was thinking more about training for the kids.

I know it would be a central Government issue, but no 'Tufty Club' or 'Green Cross Man' visits anymore then?

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

So, we are saying that between North Cross Road and the Goose Green roundabout we really need 4 crossings? In approximately a tenth of a mile?

Or 7 in the half mile stretch between the Police station and East Dulwich Station?

And then there is talk of skimming the GG roundabout to make transit through it quicker, which would contradict all of the above and our 2 new speed tables?

[James Barber]

1/4 mile and 7/10ths of a mile respectively.

And yes meddling with Goose Green roundabout wouldnt make sense. I'm sure that wont proceed.

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

I can't think of another stretch of road with so many crossing points crammed into such a short space, even in places like the Kings Road which are shopping meccas. I know that the Lane is very busy at the weekends but still....

I was behind an ambulance earlier that was trying to get through to Kings and it kept having to slow right down for the speed tables and jiggle through our new road pinches, on a blue light run. Presumably the people who want this level of traffic 'calming' are those that are up in arms when the emeregency services can't keep to their arrival times.

Stop the world please, I think I want to get off :'(

[maxxi]

Worker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tell us how you really feel!

>

> I don't think anyone is arguing that it's

> impossible for a person to cross the road, but

> that on balance a crossing between the two current

> ones is justified. For the elderly, parents with

> young children, the disabled, and unfortunately

> for the dangerously impatient who make the road

> more hazardous for everyone. Taking your argument

> to the nth degree, you could argue the crossing

> outside Iceland is superfluous because people

> could cross down by the Plough.

You do realise it's TWO new crossings between the current ones? Still justified?

[peckhamboy]

You do realise it's TWO new crossings between the current ones? Still justified?

Yes. As a pedestrian, it's a massive detour at present if, for example, you wanted to visit the deli and green and blue using pedestrian crossings. As a driver, I would much rather have a couple of extra crossings to deal with than have to deal with idiots running out between parked cars to try to catch a bus. It's pretty rare that, between traffic density, buses pulling out, and pedestrians crossing at inappropriate places, it's ever safe or even possible to get past 20mph along there anyway. What's the hurry? I'm happy to take 30 seconds longer on the drive in return for it being a much better place to be out and about on foot.

[David A]

Worker,

It was my post you?re alluding to.

I don?t have a problem with an extra crossing on Lordship Lane per se.

My issue is with people who ask for cash machines on one side of a road because they can?t be arsed to use a crossing 40 yards away.

When you?ve got people making this type of request, which suggests they need an instructional video called ?Remember: Pants First, Then Shoes? to help them get dressed in the morning, I think there?s a problem.

That?s only exacerbated by the fact that they?re making the request of Southwark Council, an authority with a level of financial acuity which makes lottery-winning fatty Michael Carroll look like Warren Buffett.

The result is that we spank over ?100k on a pair of crossings.

One of which goes directly into a sodding phonebox.

[maxxi]

peckhamboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

As a pedestrian, it's a massive detour at

> present if, for example, you wanted to visit the

> deli and green and blue using pedestrian

> crossings.

Apologies - you obviously have very, VERY little legs.

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

maxxi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> peckhamboy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> As a pedestrian, it's a massive detour at

> > present if, for example, you wanted to visit

> the

> > deli and green and blue using pedestrian

> > crossings.

>

> Apologies - you obviously have very, VERY little

> legs.

@ peckhamboy HTH

[James Barber]

What a blast back in time to see that video og Green Cross Man - thanks.

I once read an interview with Keith Prowse aka Green Cross Man/Darth Vader. He said it was the best thing in his life - noticeable reduction in children being involved in such crashes during and long after the campaign and how proud he was to be involved.

I can't wait until the crossings are both activated. The sky will not fall down. People will find Lordship Lane just a little more pleasant to go shoping, etc.

[peckhamboy]

maxxi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> peckhamboy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> As a pedestrian, it's a massive detour at

> > present if, for example, you wanted to visit

> the

> > deli and green and blue using pedestrian

> > crossings.

>

> Apologies - you obviously have very, VERY little

> legs.

Yes I do. And you obviously think it's funny or clever to mock the disabled. I can imagine you chuckling away whilst you typed that, your tiny little brain lost in a paroxysm of mirth about just how unbelievably witty you are. No doubt your parents are very, very proud.

[Alexthecamel]

David A Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks James.

>

> It does pretty much on the first point.

>

> As for the schools, I was thinking more about

> training for the kids.

>

> I know it would be a central Government issue, but

> no 'Tufty Club' or 'Green Cross Man' visits

> anymore then?

I raised this on the thead about the RTA on East Dulwich Grove, but could anyone with a connection query local Schools' insistance on dark coats- madness particularly as they come out at dusk.

[James Barber]

Hi Alexthecamel,

I can see where you're coming from but perhaps...

The dark school jackets are cheaper and need less washing/care. My children only have ot look at a white anything for it to get dirty.

Most school bags/rucsacs have reflective strips and patches.

Most schools start & close in clear daylight.

Making our children brightly clothed is not the apporoach other countries have needed to drastically reduce child injuries and deaths from road traffic crashes. But those countries do have different liability laws. The party in a collission with the least power/size/mass is assumed innocent until proven guilty.

Changing to this form of liability causes outrage in the UK but it would allow UK to take part in real vehicle insurance competition with a Europe wide market. So overall probably costs neutral and would save a lot from lawyers fees proving everyone was innocent in every crash.