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Petition to Revoke Article 50

nxjen

By nxjen
in The Lounge

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Jenny1

Jenny1

Posted
Posted

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-

> director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/?fbclid=IwAR

> 3dVW9PvsGCy4u1gAjg7io6_XbRd9J3yOnym3HhJF9x3SMzLfjn

> yrdD8xs

>

>

> So the "Vote Leave" director admits that they won

> because they lied to the public.

>

> What with that and the apparently illegal

> funding/spending issues, I can't understand why

> the result of the referendum isn't being declared

> void.

>

> ETA: An extract:

>

> And so to the damning paragraph that outs the

> Leave Campaign for what it was:

>

> Pundits and MPs kept saying ?why isn?t Leave

> arguing about the economy and living standards?.

> They did not realise that for millions of people,

> ?350m/NHS was about the economy and living

> standards ? that?s why it was so effective. It was

> clearly the most effective argument not only with

> the crucial swing fifth but with almost every

> demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was

> level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won

> without immigration? No. Would we have won without

> ?350m/NHS? All our research and the close result

> strongly suggests No. Would we have won by

> spending our time talking about trade and the

> Single Market? No way.


Exactly Sue. Vote Leave have been clear that they knew very well at the time of the referendum that they couldn't win if they put forward a concrete proposal of what 'Leave' meant. So instead they needed to 'massage the figures' (to be polite about it - I'd call it 'lie to the public' ) in order to have a hope in hell. That's why we're in the mess we are now.


I read the comments of Roland Smith on Twitter and would thoroughly recommend following him. He's a former prominent 'leaver' who now favours revoking Article 50. He's really interesting on how there has never been a thought-through plan from the 'Leave' side about how to enact 'Leaving' in a way that would convince the public that it was a good idea. He wrote a long thread about it. A few years back they even had a competition to come up with a plan and couldn't find one!

Jenny1

Jenny1

Posted
Posted

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So the government has rejected the petition but it

> will still be debated on April 1st. Is this a

> joke?


I think it's the government that's the joke. I got those standard email responses too Alan Medic, but didn't take them too seriously. The petition is having an effect where it needs to - on all MPs who now have to focus on working together, across parties, to come up with a way forward.

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So the government has rejected the petition but it

> will still be debated on April 1st. Is this a

> joke?


That's the rules of petitions - but the debate won't be in the chamber and it isn't really a debate (no votes)


Petition debate / government reply has been shown to mean nothing on big issues (On small specific issues it may work)

Sue

Sue

Posted
Posted

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> Remoaners need to get over it. Accept the result.

> Retain our Democracy.

>



As somebody who has described their current medical problems in some detail on this forum (I hope you are feeling better, btw), you do realise the effect Brexit is going to have on the NHS, don't you?


https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-voice/influence/europe/brexit


There were speakers from the BMA at the march last Saturday.

carlafindle

carlafindle

Posted
Posted

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Remoaners need to get over it. Accept the

> result.

> > Retain our Democracy.

> >

>

>

> As somebody who has described their current

> medical problems in some detail on this forum (I

> hope you are feeling better, btw), you do realise

> the effect Brexit is going to have on the NHS,

> don't you?

>

> https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-voice/influence/

> europe/brexit

>

> There were speakers from the BMA at the march last

> Saturday.



Well said.

Angelina

Angelina

Posted
Posted

Given the derogatory comments towards those voting to Leave, it's hardly appropriate to pick on one EDF individual for using a common terms for those who vote Remain (but want to change the outcome of the referendum).


Really, just grow up. It's tantamount to bullying.

exdulwicher

exdulwicher

Posted
Posted
Remoaners need to get over it. Accept the result. Retain our Democracy.


Genuine question, help me out here.

YOu can (surely??) see that pretty much any version of Leave currently being offered is going to make you, us, the country WORSE OFF compared to Remaining. Not better in any quantifiable way whatsoever. Unless I've actually missed two things here and you can point out to me what we'll be gaining by leaving...?


The country voted for "Leave", I get that much (albeit in a vote that was based on lies, dark money and interference). Now that the version of Leave that our genius politicians have managed to come up with is here in front of us, do you not look at that and think "wait, hold on just one second, this is actually shit, this isn't what we were promised". ? Are you not angry at the Farages and Rees-Moggs and Johnsons of the world who promised you the easiest deal in history and the UK holding all the cards when you can (hopefully?) see that NONE OF THAT is true?


At the moment, this tinkering round the edges with "the deal" being offered is basically deciding whether to have yuor shit sandwich on white or brown bread, with butter or without.


Don't you want to put the bread down and have a bit more of a think before you make the sandwich? I know you voted to have a sandwich but you're allowed to change your mind....

Loutwo

Loutwo

Posted
Posted

I don?t think it?s about changing your mind. I actually think it?s about accepting that the referendum was NOT a ?first last the post?, winner takes all scenario. We need compromise. I also object to some people framing it as old vs young. As though, somehow, a older persons vote is less valid because they are coming towards the end of their life. All of this sort of divisive talk contributes nothing to the discussion.


I am older, I voted to leave, and then changed my opinion after the vote. Genuinely. I now realise that remaining would be better, but some 17 million people voted to leave and in a democratic country we should respect that decision, whilst also remembering that the result was very very close. Therefore, a soft Brexit and remaining in a common market scenario with freedom of movement and a customs arrangement is a brilliant compromise to ensure that we try to please as many people as possible.


Louisa.

carlafindle

carlafindle

Posted
Posted

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Remoaners need to get over it. Accept the result.

> Retain our Democracy.

>

> Genuine question, help me out here.

> YOu can (surely??) see that pretty much any

> version of Leave currently being offered is going

> to make you, us, the country WORSE OFF compared to

> Remaining. Not better in any quantifiable way

> whatsoever. Unless I've actually missed two things

> here and you can point out to me what we'll be

> gaining by leaving...?

>

> The country voted for "Leave", I get that much

> (albeit in a vote that was based on lies, dark

> money and interference). Now that the version of

> Leave that our genius politicians have managed to

> come up with is here in front of us, do you not

> look at that and think "wait, hold on just one

> second, this is actually shit, this isn't what we

> were promised". ? Are you not angry at the Farages

> and Rees-Moggs and Johnsons of the world who

> promised you the easiest deal in history and the

> UK holding all the cards when you can (hopefully?)

> see that NONE OF THAT is true?

>

> At the moment, this tinkering round the edges with

> "the deal" being offered is basically deciding

> whether to have yuor shit sandwich on white or

> brown bread, with butter or without.

>

> Don't you want to put the bread down and have a

> bit more of a think before you make the sandwich?

> I know you voted to have a sandwich but you're

> allowed to change your mind....



Quite right and well said.

Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Posted
Posted

Lou. You voted leave and changed your mind


Many others have done the same. How many? Don?t know


But what if it was sufficient numbers to reverse the referendum result? That means we would be ploughing ahead with this crazy notion, doing harm to the country whilst simultaneously being against the wishes of the majority


So no. I won?t be respecting the 2016 (and we are in 2019 now. 2016 seems like a lifetime ago) decision


Now. If that 2016 decision was ratified in a follow up? Well clearly no amount of spluttering from remainers should get in the way of that. But come on. Despite bravado statements from some, most of us are pretty sure a second referendum would throw up a different result

KidKruger

KidKruger

Posted
Posted

No deal is as good as the deal we have right now. It appears most arguments for proposed deals seem to use points on how well they compare to the current deal as a selling point. Tells you all you need to know in terms of what's best for UK. Anybody who still wants out, needs to have a word with themselves. It's irresponsible behaviour, from a section of society which (from what I've seen on social media) seems to pride themselves on their patriotism.

So patriotism is the new treachery.

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

So that's it then - the severity of the situation hits home. No majority for anything in the indicative votes (I understand that MP's are in silos right now and maybe need reminding on Monday they are voting for what's acceptable - not their first preference only)


MV3 looks like its cancelled (DUP not supporting even if Bercow allowed). As someone just said - Theresa May is so useless she doesn't even have the support to resign.

Blah Blah

Blah Blah

Posted
Posted

I think we are heading for MEP elections and a longer extension personally, while Parliament comes up with something that eventually goes back to the people in another referendum. I don't see any other way forward happening.


Meanwhile, far right former football hooligan Tommy Robinson, is paying for the UKIP stage in Whitehall on Friday. Farage is due to arrive there for Leave Means Leave, and presumably their own stage. Brexit handbags at dawn I think.

Sue

Sue

Posted
Posted

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The remain plan is not to bother this Friday -

> even Steve Bray won't be there. Remain day off

> :)

>

> Let Nigel and Tommy argue with the police (or even

> each other).



Indeed.


No way on earth would I want to be anywhere near that lot. Not knowingly, anyway.

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