The Budget..

[Mick Mac]

Those who seem to get left out of the debate to some extent are people earning around the ?120k mark with children. These people have lost the personal allowance last year (soon costing them ?9250 at 40% = ?3700 per year) and are also losing the child benefit - another ?1-?3k per year. That's a lot of money to lose out of net income for a family at ?500+ per month.

Every time the personal allowance goes up the impact of losing their personal allowance, as against the general population, is greater. Every year they are giving more away as compared to others.

This probably affects quite a few ED families.

[Loz]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Anyway people in the city are celebrating I'm sure. That must be nice for them.

Yep, it saved them quite a bit of money hiring accountants to avoid the tax.

[????]

Brendan - the Office od Budget Responsibility produced the figures, they said there are some significant caveats but I guess I'd trust them more than someone who didn't even seem to get the very basics of the budget. Go away and read some of it thn just spouting maybe? Won't hold my breath. shhhhs I'm amazed you live where you do given your hatred of city types....

The incraesed stamp duty on ?2M+ properties and the closing of the 'company' purchasing on residential property will cover the ?1.5bn the 50% rate was actually raising, and won't give our country such a bad reputation as a place to do business.

As I've saide before great jobs that they do - teachers, doctors and our army can't pay the UK's way in the world (well Eton, Harley Street and mercenaries can contribute) so sadly we have to try and keep some of those scummy, rich business people, enrtrepreneurs, wealth creators and dare I say even some bankers and even attract some foreighn ones I'll go an wash my mouth out staright away and tatoo the Guardiuan masthead on my arse in penance for even mentioning this unpleasant reality.

[????]

What Mick said, anyone earning 70k-120k with young families are the worst affected overall (TO BE CLEAR I mean relatively, obviously it's very decent money), going to be a few of them round here. Given London house prices etc I guess in the long term something will have to give....discretionary spending in all those nick nack shops/school fess for those that do/moving out away etc)

[Chippy Minton]

The BBC have got a very user friendly calculator to work out how you'll actually be affected http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17442946

[Brendan]

Fukcing hell quids, you?ve even more hang-ups than I do.

[????]

It's part of my Persecution Complex*

*Dr Signumnd Hugenot diagnosis

[jelly]

Seems like there's one or two liberal shills propagandising on this thread;-)

[Brendan]

Oh good.

Anyway I only read the Guardian for the same reason I read the Telegraph. Out of a kind of morbid fascination with the tenuous, illogical crap people can come up with to justify their pre-determined positions.

Although I do have to admit that it is less tasteless watching people trying to justify self-righteous idealism and well meaning idiocy than prejudice and exploitation.

[Otta]

I don't read any of them, because I don't want to be labelled.

Quids, you're right about the pension thing not effecting state pensions, but it's not only public sector workers retiring on final salary pensions who will be effected.

Lots of elderly people have various little, or not so little, pensions from the firms they worked for for years, back when things were better all round, and you could get a decent pension from a normal working class job if you put the years in. These people will be losing out.

[????]

Keef, at the edges you are right. so people with a small non-sate pension will be affected. I think this sort of thing is inevitable with tinkering with allowances etc (see also the furore over Child Benefit) but understand why these poeple would be affected and it's unfair to a degree but many and a growing number of 'pensioners; are really pretty well set up - it's not like 20 years ago when many pensioners were people who had been through the war and were relying on state pensions solely, ans were seeing their benefits frozen and VAT put on fuel by Major's govt...now that was fucking disgusting. Basically it's Mick. Keef's, Paul and Ringos generation who are retiring right now I guess the only way round this is some kind of means tetsed benefit but that's not easy or neccessrily ideal.

PS I made the point of saying Private and Public sector pensioners together BTW, on this issue at the moment there's not huge differences as most Private sector workers who are nw retired WITH a pension have a final salary pension, not all and not all of them are massive as you allude too.

[????]

Although I do have to admit that it is less tasteless watching people trying to justify self-righteous idealism and well meaning idiocy than prejudice and exploitation.

Agree with that, It's why I still tend to prefer the company of lefties to righties, despite the fact they'd have us all bankrupt before you could say Polly Tonybee :))

[El Pibe]

Brendan - "Although I do have to admit that it is less tasteless watching people trying to justify self-righteous idealism and well meaning idiocy than prejudice and exploitation."

(tu) seconded.

The latter part might be a bit harsh though.

I'd have gone with "self-righteous self-interest and exploitation".

[Otta]

PS I made the point of saying Private and Public sector pensioners together BTW

*Holds hands up*

So you did. I missed that, and guess I just assumed you were having another swipe at public sector pensions.

I stand corrected.

[El Pibe]

blah blah budget blah

[????]

budget blah, blah

[Loz]

???? Wrote:

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> Although I do have to admit that it is less

> tasteless watching people trying to justify

> self-righteous idealism and well meaning idiocy

> than prejudice and exploitation.

>

> Agree with that, It's why I still tend to prefer

> the company of lefties to righties, despite the

> fact they'd have us all bankrupt before you could

> say Polly Tonybee :))

I thought it was only me who read the Guardian to laugh/cry at some of the opinion pieces.

[????]

Have you tried The Guardian message boards Loz? They are a bit like Crack Cocaine, just one more peek....

[Loz]

Oh, God, quids, I have a complete addiction to the Comment is Free section. And a forehead-shaped hole on my desk.

So many bitter, twisted individuals on there.

[Chippy Minton]

Tee hee...that's so funny because I read the Mail's website all the time for exactly the same reason!

[????]

Yeah, but Loz and I don't read the Mail Chippy, not much difference between the loons on the Guardian boards or Mail ones IMO - angry, demented, foolish, loons

[Chippy Minton]

Err...I agree. That's the point, I don't read the Guardian either.

[Mick Mac]

???? Wrote:

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> Agree with that, It's why I still tend to prefer

> the company of lefties to righties,

I think some current righties are former young lefties. The majority of people grow up with little money and hence left wing views are attractive to them irrespective of their parents financial position.

Therefore if you are spending time with young people when you are young then you are likely to have a convergence of views.

Its hard to shift... irrespective of what happens when you are near 50. Its part of growing up, just a latter part of life 'grow up'.

[Loz]

I have dipped my toe into the Mail occasionally and it is also full of the demented. But the Gruiniad's news coverage is actually pretty good. In fact, I'd say their site is the second best news source in the UK, after the Beeb.

And it comes with added nuts.

[Chippy Minton]

I'd generally agree with that Quids. Eric Pickles used to be in the Socialist Workers' Party when he was younger!