what counts as a sleep disorder

[RJ]

I am totally at my wits end with my 2 year old's sleeping and want to try to get some professional help, does anyone know if there are things your gp can do, places they can refer you? Also I don't know what would they would consider normal and what would be taken seriously as a sleep disorder, my daughter goes to bed fine between 7/7.30 but then 70% of the time wakes at some point past 12 for 2-4 hours then gets up anywhere between 5-6 regardless. This has been going on since last summer and I feel we have tried everything and am starting to go a bit mad with the sleep deprivation. Any advice much appreciated.

[hellosailor]

Hi, that sounds pretty gruelling, you poor thing.

I don't know the details but I have heard from others that there is a sleep clinic your GP can refer you to, I forget if it is at Kings or Guys, or whether they both have one - perhaps others replying to the thread can clarify?

(like you, not sure what the criteria would be for a referral)

x

[Sanne Panne]

That sounds so tough. What have you tried so far and for how long have you tried each method? Not so we can "judge" but it may make this thread more efficient in getting you a couple of things you can try while you get professional help. How about booking an appointment with your GP and ask if there's anything they can do? I'm sure you can be referred in some way, the question is how quickly you will be seen on NHS. Or if you're willing and able to spend some money there are supposed to be "night nannies" for all ages.

[Monkey]

Definitely get yourseld referred to the sleep clinic at King's. It's not good for her or for you. I hear the sleep clinic is amazing. I am sure they'll sort it out. Good luck.

[RJ]

Thanks v much for your posts, will give the gp a call and fingers crossed, we're not really able to go for night nanny so great to hear there is nhs option x

[Sanne Panne]

Good luck!

[GinaG3]

It's wanted to say good luck. I know how you feel, kind of. Our daughter is 3. Since 21 months she started sleeping through but has never had a routine. She has constant energy and doesn't go to bed until sometimes 1am - its really gruelling.

We had problems like you where she would wake up for blocks of 2-4 hours during the night and it was absolute murder for me, my partner just got on with it, he wouldn't even notice as he just slept through whereas I would deal with thrashing tantrums to get back to sleep. I found it so hard. I did notice pushing back bedtime, although I know unrealistic and there are other solutions really helped and almost immediately stopped her waking in the night. I noticed putting her to sleep anytime before 8 was an absolute no no. Napping during the day was a big no no too, I only ever allowed her to sleep after 8pm and that's when we truly had unbroken nights sleeps, apart from illness etc. But that's expected so I can't complain. just make sure you get her up in the morning at the normally time, if you do try this. She will be slightly more tired than normal but should easily fall into a new pattern. I've talked people through this before with sleep issues and it's helped a lot. Feel free to PM me, if you would like.

The later issues we are having with sleep now are unrelated to this and are my own fault as I was put on sedative medication leading me to not being able to get up in the morning, meaning she slept in to, after 2 months I'm still trying to break this cycle but finding it sooo difficult. I can't wait to get back into a normal sleep pattern again. You just don't feel right do you?!

[nikki73]

We have exactly the same problem, and it's been going on for nearly 2 years. Finally asked for a referral to kings sleep clinic in Jan when i fell down the stairs going to check on screaming toddler. Had my appointment this week only to be told there is no sleep clinic in kings... Am sure there is one but make sure you get a name before asking your gp for a referral. It's so tough but I am sure there is a solution. Good luck.

[Saffron]

Hi RJ from your brief description, it doesn't sound like your LO has a sleep disorder, just disordered sleep. If you see what I mean? There's probably nothing wrong with your child, her sleep is just set to a pattern that differs greatly from your own. Although this pattern may be intrinsic to her, there are ways to modify it into something with which you can all live. This doesn't need to involve letting your child cry alone for extended periods of time, if you prefer a 'gentle' approach. There are many other forms of sleep modification, such as wake-to-sleep and fade approaches, which do not involve excessive crying. I hope you're able to find some help that will work well for your family, and don't be afraid to reject advice which doesn't suit your needs. There are many sources available for help with sleep. xx

(Edited to say that I did not mean that to seem judgemental towards individuals who have chosen to let their children cry it out. It's just that I've encountered (a) people who let their children cry it out only b/c they didn't know other methods were available, and (b) people who felt like they were obligated to follow common sleep advice even if they thought it didn't 'fit' their child.)

[Saffron]

GinaG3 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's wanted to say good luck. I know how you feel,

> kind of. Our daughter is 3. Since 21 months she

> started sleeping through but has never had a

> routine. She has constant energy and doesn't go to

> bed until sometimes 1am - its really gruelling.

>

> We had problems like you where she would wake up

> for blocks of 2-4 hours during the night and it

> was absolute murder for me, my partner just got on

> with it, he wouldn't even notice as he just slept

> through whereas I would deal with thrashing

> tantrums to get back to sleep. I found it so hard.

> I did notice pushing back bedtime, although I know

> unrealistic and there are other solutions really

> helped and almost immediately stopped her waking

> in the night. I noticed putting her to sleep

> anytime before 8 was an absolute no no. Napping

> during the day was a big no no too, I only ever

> allowed her to sleep after 8pm and that's when we

> truly had unbroken nights sleeps, apart from

> illness etc. But that's expected so I can't

> complain. just make sure you get her up in the

> morning at the normally time, if you do try this.

> She will be slightly more tired than normal but

> should easily fall into a new pattern. I've talked

> people through this before with sleep issues and

> it's helped a lot. Feel free to PM me, if you

> would like.

>

> The later issues we are having with sleep now are

> unrelated to this and are my own fault as I was

> put on sedative medication leading me to not being

> able to get up in the morning, meaning she slept

> in to, after 2 months I'm still trying to break

> this cycle but finding it sooo difficult. I can't

> wait to get back into a normal sleep pattern

> again. You just don't feel right do you?!

Brilliant post! What a lovely (though difficult, I'm sure!!) example of a variation on normal. My toddler also goes to sleep quite late, and I'm sick of people criticising and looking down on me for this. I've found that earlier bed times cause major havoc and don't end up producing more/better sleep. She's still waking once a night but goes quickly back to sleep. I'm a SAHM until I find a postdoc grant, so it's not a big deal for me at the moment. (Mr Saff sometimes feels lonely, b/c I often sleep in Little Saff's room... but hey he has the bed/TV remote to himself, so it can't be all that bad for him!) I'm sick too of people saying that I caused this problem and that the only solution is to make her cry it out. There's no scientific support to such statements, and they're highly demoralising things to say to a sleep deprived parent. Anyone with sleep issues has my highest sympathy. xx

[RJ]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my post, its really good to hear other peoples experiences and know that its not just my daughter doing this, we dont know anyone directly who has such problems so to know other toddlers have done the same is really reassuring. I don't know what the answer is but I feel a bit less desperate just reading your posts! Thanks again x