NHS on the table

[TheCat]

This is a genuine question. Not a leading question or an attempt at trolling. What does 'NHS on the table' mean with respect to a us/uk trade deal?

I'm as worried as the next guy about the spectre of the US system, but they can't ask for that (surely healthcare is a domestic issues). Does it not just mean access to buy from UDS providers? Or am I being naive?

[Angelina]

It means that the contracts to supply Healthcare will be given to USA companies and run for profit. That profit goes to USA and is funded by the British tax payer

[Sephiroth]

Catty

Nothing is purely ?a domestic issue? any more. But as a Brexiteer you were told this would happen and you dismissed it

The us won?t ask for it - we will offer it because we will be desperate for a trade deal. It?s that simple

You are being naive. You were naive. And arrogant. And now we will pay. Cheers!

[TheCat]

Thanks for the balanced judgement free comment sephiroth

I wouldn't call myself a brexiteer by the way. I've outlined my reasons and the fact that it was a tough decision, on previous threads. But if it's easier for you to just sign me to a 'tribe' and dismiss me, then fine....

[Sephiroth]

I?m not dismissing you at all. You made your call. You say balanced judgement. I say you were dismissive of warnings

We disagree. But I?m not dismissing you

But it is odd, 3 years on that you are looking for reassurance that something like this surely couldn?t be behind our control. Because we were meant to be taking back control. Right?

I sound snarky. I know. But ignore me. Do you feel like maybe we won?t have as much control as you thought after today?

[diable rouge]

This is a good overview of the realities... https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1135926328568549376

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I?m not dismissing you at all. You made your

> call. You say balanced judgement. I say you were

> dismissive of warnings

>

> We disagree. But I?m not dismissing you

>

> But it is odd, 3 years on that you are looking for

> reassurance that something like this surely

> couldn?t be behind our control. Because we were

> meant to be taking back control. Right?

>

> I sound snarky. I know. But ignore me. Do you

> feel like maybe we won?t have as much control as

> you thought after today?

Fair comment. Please don't tar me with the 'taking back control' brush though....

With out chronic lack of leadership at the moment we aren't in control of anything to be fair!

[diable rouge]

And this is a good follow-up to DAG's thread and a further reality...

Of course, all of this was far too complicated and long-winded to put on the side of a bus...

[Sephiroth]

Cheers cat. I don?t mean to tar you with any brush

But ?take back control? is one of the more widespread and agreed leave slogans I thought

Then again - that is the problem with ?leaving?. You can?t get leavers to agree on what it means

[natty01295]

NHS needs to get better!!! the NHS is not doing well, needs help

I found it not a great service of care,

** I think its Poor service!!!!! **

More Funding,more cash,

And No Lies from Boris

350m a week

[TheCat]

I would like to acknowledge, as I have on this forum before, that I have different motivations to a lot of leavers.

But, my biggest failing, was expecting 'sensible government' to deal with the transition. I had too much faith in leadership. I still believe that a good UK government could have negotiated a tricky situation, and come out okay. But I didn't plan on one of the worst governments (and worst oppositions) in memory.....

[VelvetBlueberry]

We have more control now than we ever did in the EU.

I'm pretty sure I read that the NHS talks were started by somebody else... not Trump. & now that people are asking him if NHS is on the table, of course he's going to say it is, as everything is. To say that this means he has his eyes set on the NHS is just putting words into his mouth. We mustn't jump to conclusions. I believe making a deal with the US will be far more fair than any deal made with the EU.

I really don't believe they intend to take our NHS & as stupid as our government currently stands,

I don't believe they're stupid enough to give it to them.

[diable rouge]

Clueless...

[Angelina]

Clearly trolling, no one is that naive

[VelvetBlueberry]

Except everyone on the left who thinks they have any control whilst in the EU.

[snowy]

Utterly clueless Velvet....

Trump's plan for a new trade agreement was set out months ago: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Summary_of_U.S.-UK_Negotiating_Objectives.pdf

The preamble sets out clearly what the US wants to happen - a quick deal that delivers "substantive results for U.S. consumers, businesses, farmers, ranchers, and workers, consistent with U.S. priorities."

Here's part of the shopping list of what they want to achieve from the "negotiations."

- Remove barriers to importing US food and agricultural products into the UK.

- New, enforceable rules to end "unjustified" trade restrictions or "commercial requirements" (like clear labelling and safety testing).

- US Pharmaceutical companies to have full access to the UK Market (i.e. NHS).

- US companies have the same access to UK government contracts as UK companies do.

- Allow US companies to sue UK firms and the UK government for non-compliance with any of the new "rules."

- Prohibit the UK from adjusting its exchange rates if it could effect the balance of payments or give unfair competitive advantage over US companies.

[Sephiroth]

"Except everyone on the left who thinks they have any control whilst in the EU."

Amazing - after 3 years that we still have to ask some people - "what was the EU preventing you from doing?"

And there is never any real answer

[KidKruger]

The NHS has been in the sights of the USA for some time.

I?m sure Trump (his family / network) and other senior figures and corporation heads have already done the groundwork on how this will be done to the UK, which may be why politicians speak about the ?pressures? the NHS is under and the ?relief? / business partnerships which will be required going forward.

The Govt will effectively convert NHS to a service where shareholders > patients and profit has primacy over individual welfare considerations.

It?s the Govt we should look to to defend our NHS, in the same way we?d hope a thief would walk past the open door of a wealthy house at night.

[JohnL]

Trump retraction made now according to Sky News ticker - that's what happened when they tried to incorporate it in TTIP too.

[KidKruger]

?Amazing - after 3 years that we still have to ask some people - "what was the EU preventing you from doing?"

And there is never any real answer?

This.

What is the answer Velvet ?

[Jenny1]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Trump retraction made now according to Sky News

> ticker - that's what happened when they tried to

> incorporate it in TTIP too.

Indeed. But sadly the comparison with the TTIP negotiation won't hold good all the way through the process. It doesn't matter what Trump says (it always varies from day to day, if not from hour by hour, anyway). Of course the NHS will be 'on the table' in any talks between the UK and US on trade. The EU can walk away during an international trade negotiation. It's big enough to do that. Which is why Trump doesn't like it of course. During a similar negotiation with the US the UK won't have anywhere to walk away to.

[Sephiroth]

indeed Jenny

1984 and Irishman struggling in England (And who once settled in East Dulwich for a bit) wrote these lyrics

"Aren't you glad you were born in England

Aren't you glad you were born an angel

That'y why you think you see

Everywhere struggles to be free"

As true now as then

[Hemingway]

It means more competition for procurement of goods and services that the NHS buys. Hysterical nonsense to say this is 'handing over the NHS to Trump' etc etc. Now, you may disagree with any contracting out of goods (unlikely) and services more likely but I really wish we could have intelligent debates about political things rather than emotive rubbish.

[JohnL]

We already get US companies to do NHS outsourced roles BUT if the government changes policies in a way that may effect them they have to suck it up. A trade agreement means they can sue I think - so government to avoid being sued has to change it's Health policies so the US companies can make a profit - they might be legally forced to protect profits.

Anyway Trump is either a fool or the great disruptor - I never heard the word disruption used in a business sense until he appeared - now it's the new buzz word.

[Sue]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Except everyone on the left who thinks they have

> any control whilst in the EU."

>

> Amazing - after 3 years that we still have to ask

> some people - "what was the EU preventing you from

> doing?"

>

> And there is never any real answer

^^^^ This ^^^^