New LED streetlamps, Underhill Rd - too bright and white

[TreacleRabbit]

Yes agree Crawthew lights are far too bright!

Where do we complain to please?

[miwg83]

I emailed James McAsh who then copied in someone from the lighting department but as I said, they investigated and decided the light level was appropriate. As many above have said I find the white light is very intrusive but they seem to be operating off some guidelines which suggest they are acceptable.

[Penguin68]

be operating off some guidelines which suggest they are acceptable. These would be the guidelines which suggest that they should happily ignore the needs or wishes of residents. The apparat are always right, we are always wrong. Live with it. It turns out our 'representatives' represent Tooley St. - their job is to tell us why the apparat is right.

[miwg83]

To quote - they are acting on the "Institute of Lighting Professionals guidance on light pollution".

In my opinion it feels like car headlamps are pointed right at my windows!

[first mate]

Oh well, that's okay then. Clearly those numbers who are complaining that the lighting is way too bright need to try much harder to adjust their perceptions so they align with council policy and guidelines.

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> be operating off some guidelines which suggest

> they are acceptable. These would be the guidelines

> which suggest that they should happily ignore the

> needs or wishes of residents. The apparat are

> always right, we are always wrong. Live with it.

> It turns out our 'representatives' represent

> Tooley St. - their job is to tell us why the

> apparat is right.

[heartblock]

Just complain by email, letter and phone. If there is a large response then they will do something. A joint letter from several neighbors gets them worried. Photos of the glare helps too.

[Penguin68]

If there is a large response then they will do something.

Evidence?

[sally buying]

Parking in Dulwich Park and other parks for instance.

Many many objections but they just carried on.

[LEDphobic]

Contact [email protected]. I also contacted [email protected] as she is my councillor. She referred the query back to street lighting and [email protected]. Richard is a cabinet member for the environment, but he has not responded.

This is the guidance they use: https://www.theilp.org.uk/documents/obtrusive-light/guidance-notes-light-pollution-2011.pdf. It is unsurprisingly complex to measure obtrusive light and is not just about Lux?s, but as the ILP says ? Remember, lighting is there for a purpose and it is the residents who have to live with it?. I think they have forgotten this. I sympathise with Southwark struggle with having to manage huge cut backs and respect their drive to reduce co2 emissions, but they have done it so badly. It?s a win win if they reduce the luminaries as they also make more savings.

[tigerranks]

i actually feel sorry for the council as you complain when the lights was yellow and highlight how you feel vulnerable when walking home during the short day months

they now have replaced them with energy saving led lights which no you can clearly see the whole length of the street and you still have a moan

REALLY GIVE IT A BREAK IF ITS TO BRIGHT CLOSE YOUR CURTAINS OR MOVE OUT

HOW SE22 HAS REALLY BECOME AN AREA OF NOTHING MORE THAN STUCK UP NOSE MOANERS

[Shivering swan1]

Agreed, those who don't like streetlights would be better off living in the countryside. But then, what would they moan about then? Which council's time and resources would they waste with ridiculous complaints?

[bobbsy]

I have never moaned about the old streetlights, not about personal safety. I appreciate the efforts to reduce energy usage, however I like a previous turn of phrase - "our right to night". LED's are neither warm nor inviting. We simply do not need our streets bathed in light the entire night.

[LEDphobic]

Until now I have never made a complaint to Southwark council and I have lived here for 25 years. I don?t believe the supposed security offered by an over light residential street at night, or the argument that the few cars on our street at night need brighter driving conditions is justified given the impact these harsh, physiologically and ecologically damaging lights will and are having.

I have had an email from Southwark?s light engineer, he is responsible for the new lights. I quote ?the perception is that white light (3k) in this installation gives an appearance of being a lot brighter?. I think if it appears brighter, it is experienced as brighter, it therefore is brighter. 3000 kelvins is a bright white light. He is scouting our streets on the 20th and so if you haven?t written yet try to do so before he comes as he has to look at all complaints.

[redpost]

They will never remove LEDs to go back to sodium lamps. Councils are saving serious money as LEDs need far less maintenance (bulb changes, burnt out ballasts etc) and are many times more efficient (saving electricity - which they DO pay for).

[heartblock]

Yes. Leave the LED.. just shade and filter.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The council has doubled up on streetlights outside my house. Light pollution not a concern apparently

[bobbsy]

Had a reply from councillor that they had received numerous complaints and would be looking into it. Anyone had any feedback regarding the inspection on the 20th?

One thing i have noticed, is that they seem far less bright on stormy windy rainy nights (obviously) - given this has been almost every night for the last weeks, I really hope they inspect on a calm clear evening.

[Penguin68]

Proper (and visible) street lighting is surely a good thing? - sodium (yellow) lights give false colours - the issue is light leakage - one 'up' as this contributes to night-sky light pollution and secondly 'sideways' into bedrooms. Shielding can deal with both issues, whilst ensuring roads and pavements are visible - this will also discourage those whose intents are nefarious - being bathed in white light can be sufficiently disconcerting to discourage wrong doing (and gives better shots for security cameras). If these lights can give reduced running costs this should be a win-win. Better and cheaper is surely good? But the council must listen to (and deal with) legitimate complaints of intrusive light pollution. And not tell residents they are 'wrong' because Tooley St. deems what is 'right'. In the end we (and they) should remember that the council are our servants, not our masters.

Amended to add - and yes, I do live in Underhill, and near a street light, so, for once, I do have a dog in this fight.

[Earl Aelfheah]

.

[jamesmcash]

Hi all,

If you have experienced issues with the new lights please email me with your address and a brief description of the issues. If you have already emailed me then you should have received a response by now - sorry if there was a delay, I went away and it?s been difficult catching up with a huge number of emails that accumulated during my trip!

Best wishes

James

[heartblock]

If you complain you may get the same response I did Penguin68 - and here is my evidence

I have a response to your query about the lighting.

The night scout was performed 20/02/2020 by the principal lighting engineer, who took light readings on site.

They have reported back that there was some intrusive light. Following this the entire road will be set on a dimming profile which means at 10:00pm the lights will dim considerably meaning the level of light will also dim considerably. We will also be fitting front and rear blinds to the lantern to stop from light intrustion.

[Penguin68]

That's heartening - I'd heard others had much dustier responses.

[heartblock]

Yes...I?m not sure why there are different responses. I would assume that the lights are much the same. The one I objected to was on a very tall post, so had the effect of a stadium light. Maybe on a lower post they constitute a lower level of light pollution?