EU Trade Talks Thread

[JohnL]

Seabag Wrote:

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> Hard Brexit seems to be the poison of choice for

> this government

>

> https://apple.news/AJaz8t_SBT5u6F1BQQ2vq0A

Unfortunately the "short run cost" is about 50 years.

[JohnL]

You can see whats going to happen - those unemployed or ill or not working for other reasons are going to be forced into these jobs whether they're fit to do them or not.

"Business groups from the CBI to the bodies representing the farming, hospitality and care work sectors have all raised the alarm about the new system, saying it will cause labour shortages."

"But Patel insisted it would be necessary for businesses to look more to potential British workers, helping them to ?up their skills and make their skills relevant? to the job market."

But these are non skilled jobs Priti - or you define them as such for immigration purposes ?

[Alan Medic]

What does 'economically inactive' mean? Surely not unemployed?

[stepdown]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> What does 'economically inactive' mean? Surely not

> unemployed?

I imagine it's worded that way so that it doesn't impact wealthy people who are unemployed and living off income/capital gains from assets.

[TheCat]

pk Wrote:

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> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > How things work today pk might not be how they

> > work tomorrow. It?s called change or adaption

> or

> > evolution etc

> >

> But as we?re here today why not deal with today

> rather than speculate about some bizarre future

> where countries don?t have free trade arrangements

> but don?t have border controls either?

I find this a puzzling perspective. Many remainers want to berate leavers for not having a clear plan for the future. And while I acknowledge that brexit is clearly significant more change than remaining, the 'status quo' does not exist, the EU will continue to evolve, so while there is uncertainty in leaving, there is also uncertainty in remaining. I don't think anyone can accuratley predict what the Eu will look like in 10 years time.

[Sephiroth]

But just because no one can predict anything with 100% accuracy doesn?t mean we can?t weigh up probabilities. The eu has been a stable and useful environment for its existence - it will evolve and if we stayed we would have helped shaped that evolution. As it is we will be a small country alone, buffeted by other larger blocs. So on balance remaining provides that far better probable outcome

Remainers have lots of reasons to complain. One of them

Being Dealing with keano and uncle and their bizarro world interpretation of events (the eu will impose a border. Not us!!) and yet here are on the day the government publishes its point system to keep people out (without a border how does it propose to do that?)

[stepdown]

The status quo does exist, it's simply how things currently are. An uncertain future does not negate the fact that there is a present.

[pk]

TheCat Wrote:

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> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > keano77 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > How things work today pk might not be how

> they

> > > work tomorrow. It?s called change or adaption

> > or

> > > evolution etc

> > >

> > But as we?re here today why not deal with today

> > rather than speculate about some bizarre future

> > where countries don?t have free trade

> arrangements

> > but don?t have border controls either?

>

> I find this a puzzling perspective. Many remainers

> want to berate leavers for not having a clear plan

> for the future. And while I acknowledge that

> brexit is clearly significant more change than

> remaining, the 'status quo' does not exist, the EU

> will continue to evolve, so while there is

> uncertainty in leaving, there is also uncertainty

> in remaining. I don't think anyone can accuratley

> predict what the Eu will look like in 10 years

> time.

You think that dealing with where we are today is a puzzling concept? And that a no deal without borders isn?t?

Perhaps you can explain that?

[Blah Blah]

Just back on the unemployed taking up those low skilled jobs that immigrants will no longer fill. Priti seems to forget that those in receipt of UC (and not sick or disabled) are already required to apply for those jobs if they live near to them. But where are the hoards of unemployed living around farms to go and pick lettuces for min wage?

The full employment claim is also a red herring as a person only has to be doing one hour of work a week to be classed as employed by government figures. Zero hours contracts and a million plus full time workers in need of top up benefits to meet basic living costs is the real story behind those figures.

The figure for long term unemployed has consistently sat at around 240k ish. Using the term 'economically inactive' may indeed signal a move to force those beyond the category of 'able bodied' unemployed into jobs, although quite how they intend to manage this is going to be another matter. Employers don't want unsuitable people foisted onto them either.

[JohnL]

Priti causing trouble in the Home Office now.

?If this were any other environment Philip Rutnam would not only be sacked he?d be denied a pension.'

It worries me that this government thinks it can threaten the pensions of civil servants. Not only the civil service but pension schemes should be separate from politicians. Any other environment has contribution based pensions and it's your money (mine shows up on my bank account app - Priti's not having it).

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/20/priti-patel-accused-bullying-staff-trying-oust-senior-civil-servant-12270747/

[Seabag]

I work closely with the restaurant industry, and this restriction is worrying as there?s a 4.00 vacancies per 100 jobs in the industry, compared to 2.6 for the wider economy.

?Low skill? doesn?t account for ability and aptitude. At Pret A Manger they get 1 in 50 applications by British people and 65% of their work force are from EU countries.

It?s going to impact business badly. Being told to up staff retention and bring in automation (the governments helpful advice) isn?t the answer.

I have this vision of the restaurant industry looking like a Homebase store, with senior citizens working as waiters and baristas.

God help us, it?s all a bit Dad?s Army.

[JohnL]

Seabag Wrote:

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> I work closely with the restaurant industry, and

> this restriction is worrying as there?s a 4.00

> vacancies per 100 jobs in the industry, compared

> to 2.6 for the wider economy.

>

> ?Low skill? doesn?t account for ability and

> aptitude. At Pret A Manger they get 1 in 50

> applications by British people and 65% of their

> work force are from EU countries.

>

> It?s going to impact business badly. Being told to

> up staff retention and bring in automation (the

> governments helpful advice) isn?t the answer.

>

> I have this vision of the restaurant industry

> looking like a Homebase store, with senior

> citizens working as waiters and baristas.

>

> God help us, it?s all a bit Dad?s Army.

It's already making bad service too. A few pub managers have mentioned they lost all there staff erlier this year and I'm seeing people behind the bar making a foamy mess of pouring a pint - I suppose they'll get better.

My 20% reduction in certain pubs and free coffees at Pret seems to have gone with the East Europeans mind you (maybe it'll return) :)

[keano77]

Yes Seabag. I think the immigration proposal needs to be re-thought.

There?s been talk of an ?Australian system?. I?ve no idea what system Australia currently operates but I remember years ago it was based on needs and shortages. Some friends of mine who were nurses were refused visas as Australia has its own nurses. Pastry chefs and many restaurant, catering and hotel staff were much in demand but Australia didn?t want many professionals such as accountants etc. If you were prepared to be a cook at an outback sheep or cattle ranch you were welcomed with open arms as were jackeroos and jilleroos.

Such an approach by Britain should be seriously considered to cover catering, hospitality and the care crisis to name just a few.

[Blah Blah]

This is precisely why I think it will be rethought Keano, as the obvious problems emerge in practise. Priti has a track record of poor understanding of most of the things she expresses views on, so I take her comments with a pinch of salt. She also has poor judgement and it is only a matter of time before she messes up, as she did when she unofficially met Isreali officials.

[keano77]

Another reason it ought to be rethought is because Sephiroth (above) probably wouldn?t even get those 10 points on the new system because of his English. Then we?d all miss his entertaining contributions.

😆

[JohnL]

Ian Dunt's take (but of course he is a filthy remainer lol)

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/02/19/the-end-of-free-movement-this-is-a-nation-dismantling-itself

[Freddie.Winter]

Hi! I found a very interesting article about Brexit for https://makemoneyonline-now.com/whats-next-for-brexit/ What do you think?

[Sephiroth]

?Another reason it ought to be rethought is because Sephiroth (above) probably wouldn?t even get those 10 points on the new system because of his English. Then we?d all miss his entertaining contributions. ?

What a love you are keano

[keano77]

Sorry Sephiroth, my attempt to be funny. Not bad I suppose for someone who?s probably got less rights than a housefly if the RSPCA got its way.

[Sephiroth]

Non-sequiturs and strawmen a gogo

You keep being you keano. You won?t change now

[Blah Blah]

Good to see differences of opinion being debated civilly no matter what kind of english expresses them :D

[Sephiroth]

THAT woman on question time last night seemed very keen on borders. She wanted a total lock down.

I keep asking keano how he imagines this is possible without a border but all I get is ?we don?t want a border the eu does?

[keano77]

I was referring to a border between the North and Irish Republic. Apologies if I didn?t make that clear.

Can?t comment about Question Time I?m afraid as I don?t watch it. I consider it cheap TV bear-baiting, a sort of middle class Jeremy Kyle.

[JohnL]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> THAT woman on question time last night seemed very

> keen on borders. She wanted a total lock down.

>

> I keep asking keano how he imagines this is

> possible without a border but all I get is ?we

> don?t want a border the eu does?

This one I guess you mean

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/question-time-audience-member-uk-immigration-a4367956.html

[JohnL]

These immigration rules are being pushed as fairer as they don't give Europeans preference - but thats not where the people with the leave agenda want to end up. The Express (and others) are still pushing CANZUK.

from 2nd Feb 2020 not last year as we thought this had disappeared.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1236734/brexit-news-uk-trade-union-canada-australia-new-zealand-Erin-O-Toole-Canzuk-plan