COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?

[JohnL]

The Speaker wasn't happy - exercising his right as a constituency MP to complain about test and trace.

Didn't he have a little go at Hancock last week too - even he can only take so much

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/18721840.coronavirus-sir-lindsay-hoyle-says-testing-issues-unacceptable/

[Blah Blah]

The test and trace system is going to implode if we don't ramp up laboratory capacity to process the tests. Government were warned about this months ago. They built extra hospital capacity (the Nightingale) but did little to build extra laboratory capacity at the same time.

[siousxiesue]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> The test and trace system is going to implode if

> we don't ramp up laboratory capacity to process

> the tests. Government were warned about this

> months ago. They built extra hospital capacity

> (the Nightingale) but did little to build extra

> laboratory capacity at the same time.

They certainly built extra capacity (Nightingale)but failed to ensure any extra intensive care nurses, that's why they were not used fully

[TE44]

Blah blah its quite simple why ai havent answered, i know my answer will encourage a vicious cirle we have already been around. I do not believe there is evidence to prove these figures. Of course any deaths is to many deaths. The figure of 1 million dying from/ with covid includes many deaths caused by poor lack of care for the vulnerable especially around care homes. We we saw the same mistakes repeated. Yes lets compare figure in december of all deaths relating to covid including how many died because od policies. Of course the suicide will have to wait for comparison until the end of 2021.How many people dying in relation to policies would you feel is to much 100,000?

[Blah Blah]

Are you seriously arguing that we should potentially allow millions to die so that we can avoid 100,000 deaths from other things?

As for figures, the data is already there. Between 3 and 10 percent of confirmed cases end in death. That has been adapted for unknowns, like true rates of infection, down to 0.3 percent. That is still 30 times the mortality percentage of global flu deaths. So obfuscate all you like, the fact remains that we would be talking of millions of deaths, 30x the base level of flu, if the virus were allowed to spread freely. The data for that is already there, which is why governments are not messing about with this thing.

[TE44]

Blah blah How can you even take that meaning from what I am saying, respect for life is not measured in numbers. Ok lets put it another way would it be acceptable to you 59million die through the break downbof society, people starve, millions unemployed ets. We are in a situation where we do not know what the outcomes will be. The positive tests have not seen the rise in deaths you would expect with the equation you are using. Do you deny there is a problem with the accuracy of tests. Are you aware fear has been used against people for the most horrendous outcomes. What governments aren't messing around, the ones that have different rules for themselves. You must be living in a state of cognitive dissonance.

[Blah Blah]

Now you are conflating different issues. Numbers absolutely do matter when it comes to public health policy.

You are splitting hairs on unknowns, in order to ignore the real challenge of this global pandemic, which is not over by a long way yet.

On PCR tests, I would agree that they are not accurate enough. Antigen blood tests are far more accurate.

I completely dismiss your claim that fear has been manufactured and misused but can no longer be bothered to explain the science, figures and evidence to you again. The cognitive dissonance is found in the rabbit hole you inhabit.

[Alan Medic]

Well the good news from America is that the virus will go away if enough of us just think that way. I presume that's what the President meant by 'herd mentality'.

[TE44]

More good news. I've herd you can't catch it if you don't have a TV.

[JohnL]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> Well the good news from America is that the virus

> will go away if enough of us just think that way.

> I presume that's what the President meant by 'herd

> mentality'.

'At the ABC town hall, the president also said the virus would ?go away?, with or without a vaccine. This would happen because of ?herd mentality?,'

Plagues do go away (and come back) but usually after killing loads of people and nothing to do with mentality.

[Blah Blah]

Plagues that spread freely in the past, went away because they ran out of people to infect and kill. But that was when the earth's population was half the size it is now, and billions of us did not live in megacities, consuming all kinds of animals.

What has changed, is our ability to develop vaccines. That is what has stopped waves of measles, tb, polio etc. We even now have a vaccine for Ebola. Global pandemics will continue to happen and we have to get much better at working with nations to eradicate risky farming and food production.

[Blah Blah]

Not true at all Hjohn as has been pointed out numerous times. Covid19 has killed more people globally in six months than Influenza kills annually.

[Spartacus]

I was in a shop today and half the customers weren't wearing masks for one reason or the other.

I wonder if mask wearing would become more acceptable if people had their names taken if they aren't wearing one, and if they catch Covid the hospitals could look them up and refuse to treat them as they refused to protect themselves ?

[JohnL]

London NYE fireworks display cancelled.

[diable rouge]

Johnson is crapping himself that he might have to cancel Christmas and face 'Scrooge Johnson' headlines and memes...

[SpringTime]

And with a pinch of salt I understand from a 'relative of an associate' working for the Oxford vaccine research facility that the virus and its variants are at least in some part synthetic. Being less than an amateur I don't know whether this is likely or indeed what it really means... Any medics able to comment?

[Alan Medic]

I am, but I haven't a clue. I'd like to know what's less than an amateur though?

[Blah Blah]

No-one at the oxford vaccine research is claiming any part of the Covid RNA is synthetic. Synthetic in simple terms, means created in a lab.

What happens during vaccine research, is that the RNA of the live virus is adapted to remove the part that tells it to replicate. Only the part that induces an immune response is used. In the case of the Oxford vaccine, they are not using Covid per se, but an Adenovirus. The reason for that is because an Adenovirus leaves a stronger immune system memory than Covid (which leaves a weak imprint that starts to significantly drop off after six months). And this can be done because the only part that matters is the attack on ACE 2 receptors performed by the Covid virus. Any virus that can produce a strong antibody response to mitigate that particular protein behaviour can be used to develop a vaccine for Covid in theory.

It is possible that the associate is confusing this standard vaccine research method with the idea that some aspect of the virus is synthetic.

[exdulwicher]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> I am, but I haven't a clue. I'd like to know

> what's less than an amateur though?

Presumably it means someone who believes conspiracy theories from "a relative of an associate" rather than reading peer-reviewed scientific journals...?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

[SpringTime]

Yep that's it in a nutshell - I'm simply querying what I've been told.

[seenbeen]

JohnL Wrote:

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> London NYE fireworks display cancelled.

At last- Khan gets the message to draw in his horns.....should never have happened after 2000 anyway- waste of money not to mention the pollution and awful travelling in and out of London for other events.

And Xmas has been ridiculous since I was about 15- except for getting a couple of extra days off work!

[Peckhampam]

Interesting. 50,000 people dying didn't persuade you it was a very serious thing - but some of your friends having it and feeling really bad, does.

[Spartacus]

Whilst I respect people's right to protest.

Is it fair that those who protested against masks, lock down and vaccines in London today would also expect treatment from the NHS if they catch this so called imaginary (in their eyes) virus?

[Blah Blah]

The people who protested yesterday were being led by a stage full of cranks, stating and claiming the most ridiculous things. You could watch the speeches online and you have to really question the intelligence of people who buy into that over medical professions working day in and out to keep all of us well.

Sadly though, I think that is the case for too many people, that until they see someone serious ill or worse in their own lives, they won't believe what every nurse and doctor on the front line already knows from March. No-one wants to see us back to hundreds of deaths a day I hope.

[Spartacus]

Watching the news over the last few days , the idiots who partied after pub closing time in central London are possibly going to be the few who ruin it for everyone by forcing the authorities to just say "close all pubs and restaurants full stop"

Sad really that a few people don't follow the guidance and cause problems for others.